Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: language identifiers for sign languages (incl. sgn) vs. attribute for indicating the representation of an individual language in "sign language modality"
"Doug Ewell" <[email protected]> Mon, 25 Nov 2019 08:55:45 -0700
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.languages |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <20191125085545.665a7a7059d7ee80bb4d670165c8327d.06623292b8.wbe@email03.godaddy.com> |
--===============4413509029404071225== Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" <html><body><span style=3D"font-family:Arial; color:#000000; font-size:10pt= ;"><div>Elizabeth is correct that a BCP 47 tag like "it-signed" would be ap= propriate for a true signed version of Italian, but not for Italian Sign La= nguage, which is a different language and would be tagged "ise".</div><div>= </div><div>Similarly, signed spoken English (any variety) is not the = same as American Sign Language. The former could be "en-signed"; the latter= is "ase".</div><div> </div><div>ISO 639-3 has code elements for more = than 140 sign languages, in addition to the generic [sgn], plus a well-defi= ned mechanism to add more as needed. They are not the issue here. The issue= is how to tag signed forms of non-sign languages, such as <span>Signing Ex= act English.</span></div><div> </div><div>As a side note, I wish Bickf= ord had not included the following in the article Elizabeth cited:</div><di= v> </div><div>> ISO 639-3 announces to the world that your language= exists and that<br>> it is different from all other languages. This can= give it more<br>> prestige and respect.</div><div> </div><div>beca= use there are already too many people who request an ISO 639 code element f= or a language because they think it will give it prestige and respect. (Thi= s is usually a problem with new constructed languages, not with established= sign languages. But still.)</div><div> </div><div>--<br></div><div>Do= ug Ewell | Thornton, CO, US | <a title=3D"ewellic.org" href=3D"http://ewell= ic.org" target=3D"_blank">ewellic.org</a></div><div> </div>=0A<blockqu= ote id=3D"replyBlockquote" style=3D"border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-lef= t: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size:10pt; color:black; font-family:verdana= ;" webmail=3D"1">=0A<div id=3D"wmQuoteWrapper">=0A-------- Original Message= --------<br>=0ASubject: Re: [Ietf-languages] [EXTERNAL] Re: language ident= ifiers for<br>=0Asign languages (incl. sgn) vs. attribute for indicating th= e<br>=0Arepresentation of an individual language in "sign language modality= "<br>=0AFrom: "Pyatt, Elizabeth J" <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">ejp= [email protected]</a>><br>=0ADate: Mon, November 25, 2019 7:18 am<br>=0ATo: Mar= k Davis =E2=98=95=EF=B8=8F <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">mark@m= acchiato.com</a>><br>=0ACc: <many><br>=0A<br>=0A In terms of i= dentifying sign languages, it's important to note that languages such as AS= L (American Sign Language) are not variants of a spoken language, but can b= e independent grammatical systems. <div><br> </div> <div>Finger spell= ing in ASL can provide a phonetic translation of specific spoken words, but= the primary signs have nothing to do with English phonology or grammar. In= fact, ASL was an adaptation of French Sign Language (FSL) and as such has = object pronouns. It </div> <div><br> </div> <div><a href=3D"https://ww= w.accreditedlanguage.com/interpreting/types-of-sign-language-and-their-deve= lopment/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.accreditedlanguage.com/interpreting= /types-of-sign-language-and-their-development/</a></div> <div><br> </div> <= div>ASL also has second person plural pronouns and apparently does not alwa= ys distinguish gender in the third person. </div> <div><a href=3D"http= s://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/pages-layout/possession.htm" target=3D"_blank"= >https://www.lifeprint.com/asl101/pages-layout/possession.htm</a></div> <di= v> <div><br> </div> <div>Tagging ASL as a variant of English would be incor= rect. Tagging ASL as a sign language associated with the U.S.(i.e. sgn-us) = might be more accurate. But having appropriate identification tags for the = languages would be better, because there are dialects and "accents" in diff= erent sign languages.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>FYI - SIL does have a mec= hanism to register specific regional sign languages.</div> <div><a href=3D"= https://www.sil.org/system/files/reapdata/49/93/30/499330725250201196922854= 2832463330862/ISO_639_3_for_Deaf_Communities__English_.pdf" target=3D"_blan= k">https://www.sil.org/system/files/reapdata/49/93/30/499330725250201196922= 8542832463330862/ISO_639_3_for_Deaf_Communities__English_.pdf</a></div> <di= v><br> </div> <div>Hope this is useful.</div> <div><br> </div> <div>Elizabe= th<br> <div><br></div> </div> </div> =0A</div>=0A</blockquote></span></bo= dy></html> --===============4413509029404071225== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ietf-languages mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages --===============4413509029404071225==--