Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: language identifiers for sign languages (incl. sgn) vs. attribute for indicating the representation of an individual language in "sign language modality"

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On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 11:42 AM Sebastian Drude (personal) <[email protected]=
>
wrote:

As to your specific questions, the Glottolog evaluation is:
>

My questions were rhetorical, but thanks for the links.  I simply picked a
few well-known areas of disagreement.


> I am not sure I understand what you refer to in this context by
> =E2=80=9Cidentification=E2=80=9D,
>

I mean that our variant subtags, like ISO 639, 15924, and 3166 code
elements, serve only to identify particular language varieties (or in a few
cases groups of varieties); they contain no classificatory information.
All you can determine from the 639-3 code element "djk" is that it
identifies the living individual language named "Eastern Maroon Creole"; by
the same token, all you can determine from the subtag "aluki" is that it
refers to the Aluki dialect of this language.

and I was not aware that this WG =E2=80=98is=E2=80=99 a registration mechan=
ism (that seems
> to be a complicated statement already for ontological reasons =F0=9F=98=
=89);
>

Technically we are not an IETF WG because our activities are not limited in
time; we are most closely analogous to an ISO Registration Authority, but
without corporate identity. The Language Subtag Reviewer is an IETF
appointee, however.


> where one can read about that; what are the procedures and criteria?
>

In RFC 5646 (the first part of BCP 47) particularly sections 2.2.5
(definition of variant subtags), 3.1.8 (how the connection between
particular variants and particular choices of ISO code elements is
established), and 3.5 (the registration procedure).  In brief, someone who
wishes to register a variant fills out a form, sends it to this mailing
list where it is discussed for two weeks or when discussion dies down
(whichever comes last), the Language Subtag Reviewer decides to accept or
reject the registration (technically subject to appeal to the IETF, but
this has never happened), and if accepted it is sent to IANA (the formal
registration authority for the IETF) for publication.

Which are the varieties already established/identified/registered?
>

In the file <
https://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-r=
egistry>,
the sections containing "Type: variant".  Further details that were used to
validate the registration appear in the directory <
https://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-subtags-templates/lang-subtags-templa=
tes.xhtml
>.



John Cowan          http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan        [email protected]
Assent may be registered by a signature, a handshake, or a click of a
computer
mouse transmitted across the invisible ether of the Internet. Formality
is not a requisite; any sign, symbol or action, or even willful inaction,
as long as it is unequivocally referable to the promise, may create a
contract.
       --Specht v. Netscape

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Dec 1, 2019 at 11:42 AM Sebas=
tian Drude (personal) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]=
l</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr"><br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-GB"><div c=
lass=3D"gmail-m_-8939093882400520734WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">As to your specific questions, the Glott=
olog evaluation is:</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=
My questions were rhetorical, but thanks for the links.=C2=A0 I simply pick=
ed a few well-known areas of disagreement.</div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0</div><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left=
:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-GB"><div clas=
s=3D"gmail-m_-8939093882400520734WordSection1"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73=
,125)">I am not sure I understand what you refer to in this context by =E2=
=80=9Cidentification=E2=80=9D, </span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv><br></div><div>I mean that our variant subtags, like ISO 639, 15924, and=
 3166 code elements, serve only to identify particular language varieties (=
or in a few cases groups of varieties); they contain no classificatory info=
rmation.=C2=A0 All you can determine from the 639-3 code element &quot;djk&=
quot; is that it identifies the living individual language named &quot;East=
ern Maroon Creole&quot;; by the same token, all you can determine from the =
subtag &quot;aluki&quot; is that it refers to the Aluki dialect of this lan=
guage.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margi=
n:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex=
"><div lang=3D"EN-GB"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-8939093882400520734WordSection=
1"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">and I w=
as not aware that this WG =E2=80=98is=E2=80=99 a registration mechanism (th=
at seems to be a complicated statement already for ontological reasons </sp=
an><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Segoe UI Emoji&quot;,sans-serif;color:r=
gb(31,73,125)">=F0=9F=98=89</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">);</=
span></p></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Technically we =
are not an IETF WG because our activities are not limited in time; we are m=
ost closely analogous to an ISO Registration Authority, but without corpora=
te identity. The Language Subtag Reviewer is an IETF appointee, however.</d=
iv><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
lang=3D"EN-GB"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-8939093882400520734WordSection1"><div=
><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">where one can =
read about that; what are the procedures and criteria?</span></p></div></di=
v></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>In RFC 5646 (the first part of BCP=
 47) particularly sections 2.2.5 (definition of variant subtags), 3.1.8 (ho=
w the connection between particular variants and particular choices of ISO =
code elements is established), and 3.5 (the registration procedure).=C2=A0 =
In brief, someone who wishes to register a variant fills out a form, sends =
it to this mailing list where it is discussed for two weeks or when discuss=
ion dies down (whichever comes last), the Language Subtag Reviewer decides =
to accept or reject the registration (technically subject to appeal to the =
IETF, but this has never happened), and if accepted it is sent to IANA (the=
 formal registration authority for the IETF) for publication.</div><div><br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;=
border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-GB=
"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-8939093882400520734WordSection1"><div><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Which are the varieties alr=
eady established/identified/registered?</span></p></div></div></div></block=
quote><div><br></div><div>In the file &lt;<a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/a=
ssignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-registry">https://www.i=
ana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-registry</a>&g=
t;, the sections containing &quot;Type: variant&quot;.=C2=A0 Further detail=
s that were used to validate the registration appear in the directory &lt;<=
a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-subtags-templates/lang-subt=
ags-templates.xhtml">https://www.iana.org/assignments/lang-subtags-template=
s/lang-subtags-templates.xhtml</a>&gt;.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>=
<div><br></div><div>John Cowan =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D=
"http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan">http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan</a> =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br=
>Assent may be registered by a signature, a handshake, or a click of a comp=
uter<br>mouse transmitted across the invisible ether of the Internet. Forma=
lity<br>is not a requisite; any sign, symbol or action, or even willful ina=
ction,<br>as long as it is unequivocally referable to the promise, may crea=
te a contract.<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--Specht v. Netscape<br></div>=
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0p=
x 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=
=3D"EN-GB"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-8939093882400520734WordSection1"><div><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>

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