[DMM] draft-liebsch-dmm-mts-03 review

Kaippallimalil John <[email protected]> Mon, 22 Sep 2025 13:10:49 +0000
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Hi Marco, All,

The draft identifies a gap/problem in 5G systems and the need to (re)select=
 and steer flows.
This draft can provide value and insight into a complex area. There are gap=
s currently as 5G/3GPP does not fully cover the N6/IP segments of the E2E p=
ath.

However, the draft describes too much of existing/standards (using differen=
t names and terms), and it is not easy for a reader to distinguish the gaps=
 from already specified standards.
A couple of suggestions:

  1.  Since the architecture in section 4 is 5G, why not use the same termi=
nology/refer to TS 23.501. And add concepts that are new.
This will make the text shorter and allow readers to see clearly what the g=
aps are. For example, what part of the architecture in Figure 4 is covered =
in 23.501, and what isn't (same for many others).

  2.  Regarding the gaps, there are architectural principles and options in=
 section 5 + but the draft does not outline the tradeoffs or say when one o=
ption is preferrable over the other.
For example: if services/network require to only maximize bandwidth utiliza=
tion vs. guarantees on latency/bandwidth. And, resilience, complexity  (e.g=
., O(n^2) vs O (n), scalability, etc.
Another aspect is the relation between this draft and CATS. Where are they =
complementary, or an alternative and the rationale for choosing among these=
 methods of steering.

Some detailed comments:

  1.  Abstract & section 4.1 refer to "two architectural principles" but is=
 not clarified what it is until much later.
The reader must read until section 5 to understand what it is about steerin=
g. It should be stated much earlier and described later for easier reading.

  2.  Section 2 / Introduction: discusses " how existing or new IETF techno=
logy can serve as enabler to accomplish service continuity for a mobile use=
r in such agile and dynamic system by means of controlled treatment of a mo=
bile user's end-to-end traffic for steering, with an option to extend for a=
dvanced treatment policies, such as traffic engineering."
Many concepts, and options make it hard to follow:
(1) the scope has steering and "advanced treatment policies", and steering =
policies. What exactly are the differences?
(2) does advanced treatment policies refer to QoS aspects?
(3) steering and service continuity: does user mobility trigger steering, o=
r does measurement on path trigger steering, or both?
(4) The draft has many terms like "flexible deployment", dynamic re-configu=
rability, complexity which can be understood in different ways.

  3.  Section 4.2. MCS Proactive UPA relocation : "proactive" is a bit conf=
using and depends on perspective.
(1) "Due to mobility, the MCS may relocate the mobile user's UPA from UPA1 =
to UPA2": that would seem more reactive?
(2) "In case the user's IP address needs to continue only as long as the da=
ta session with ASF1 takes .." How does UPA know how long the session lasts=
?

  4.  Section 4.2 "In order to keep routing paths short and latency low, th=
e ASF may be relocated from ASF1 to ASF2". How does ASF /data network know =
how to do this?
Does MCS proactively relocate the UPA (UPA1 -> UPA2) based on some measurem=
ents of the path UPA1 - ASF1 and expect to have better performance after th=
e move UPA2 -> ASF1?



  1.  Section 4.4: "A MCS provide may deploy distributed UPAs in order to s=
horten the route and resulting latency for the communication between two mo=
bile users"
Why is there a need to move UPA for shorter paths? Isn't it possible to hav=
e a routed network (with DPNs) that select the shortest/lower latency path =
etc.
The problem seems to be that the UPA is not distributed enough (that one ha=
s to move from UPA1 -> UPA2 to get a shorter path to UPA3)

  2.  Section 5:/ deployment options. Between the different options what is=
 the trade-off in terms of scale and complexity (of provisioning/maintainin=
g the paths)
See overall comments also.

Best Regards,
John

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Marco, All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The draft identifies a gap/problem in 5G systems and=
 the need to (re)select and steer flows.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This draft can provide value and insight into a comp=
lex area. There are gaps currently as 5G/3GPP does not fully cover the N6/I=
P segments of the E2E path.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">However, the draft describes too much of existing/st=
andards (using different names and terms), and it is not easy for a reader =
to distinguish the gaps from already specified standards.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">A couple of suggestions:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"1">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l4 level1 =
lfo8">Since the architecture in section 4 is 5G, why not use the same termi=
nology/refer to TS 23.501. And add concepts that are new.<br>
This will make the text shorter and allow readers to see clearly what the g=
aps are. For example, what part of the architecture in Figure 4 is covered =
in 23.501, and what isn&#8217;t (same for many others).<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso=
-list:l4 level1 lfo8">Regarding the gaps, there are architectural principle=
s and options in section 5 + but the draft does not outline the tradeoffs o=
r say when one option is preferrable over the other.
<br>
For example: if services/network require to only maximize bandwidth utiliza=
tion vs. guarantees on latency/bandwidth. And, resilience, complexity &nbsp=
;(e.g., O(n^2) vs O (n), scalability, etc.<br>
Another aspect is the relation between this draft and CATS. Where are they =
complementary, or an alternative and the rationale for choosing among these=
 methods of steering.<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Some detailed comments:<o:p></o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"1" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l6 level1 =
lfo9">Abstract &amp; section 4.1 refer to &#8220;<span style=3D"font-family=
:&quot;Courier New&quot;">two architectural principles</span>&#8221; but is=
 not clarified what it is until much later.
<br>
The reader must read until section 5 to understand what it is about steerin=
g. It should be stated much earlier and described later for easier reading.=
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso=
-list:l6 level1 lfo9">Section 2 / Introduction: discusses &#8220; how exist=
ing or new IETF technology can serve as enabler to accomplish service conti=
nuity for a mobile user in such agile and dynamic system by
 means of controlled treatment of a mobile user's end-to-end traffic for st=
eering, with an option to extend for advanced treatment policies, such as t=
raffic engineering.&#8221;<br>
Many concepts, and options make it hard to follow:<br>
(1) the scope has steering and &#8220;advanced treatment policies&#8221;, a=
nd steering policies. What exactly are the differences?
<br>
(2) does advanced treatment policies refer to QoS aspects?<br>
(3) steering and service continuity: does user mobility trigger steering, o=
r does measurement on path trigger steering, or both?<br>
(4) The draft has many terms like &#8220;flexible deployment&#8221;, dynami=
c re-configurability, complexity which can be understood in different ways.=
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso=
-list:l6 level1 lfo9">Section 4.2. MCS Proactive UPA relocation : &#8220;pr=
oactive&#8221; is a bit confusing and depends on perspective.
<br>
(1) &#8220;Due to mobility, the MCS may relocate the mobile user's UPA from=
 UPA1 to UPA2&#8221;: that would seem more reactive?
<br>
(2) &#8220;In case the user's IP address needs to continue only as long as =
the data session with ASF1 takes ..&#8221; How does UPA know how long the s=
ession lasts?
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso=
-list:l6 level1 lfo9">Section 4.2 &#8220;In order to keep routing paths sho=
rt and latency low, the ASF may be relocated from ASF1 to ASF2&#8221;. How =
does ASF /data network know how to do this?<br>
Does MCS proactively relocate the UPA (UPA1 -&gt; UPA2) based on some measu=
rements of the path UPA1 &#8211; ASF1 and expect to have better performance=
 after the move UPA2 -&gt; ASF1?<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0in" start=3D"5" type=3D"a">
<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso-list:l6 level1 =
lfo9">Section 4.4: &#8220;A MCS provide may deploy distributed UPAs in orde=
r to shorten the route and resulting latency for the communication between =
two mobile users&#8221;<br>
Why is there a need to move UPA for shorter paths? Isn&#8217;t it possible =
to have a routed network (with DPNs) that select the shortest/lower latency=
 path etc.<br>
The problem seems to be that the UPA is not distributed enough (that one ha=
s to move from UPA1 -&gt; UPA2 to get a shorter path to UPA3)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0in;mso=
-list:l6 level1 lfo9">Section 5:/ deployment options. Between the different=
 options what is the trade-off in terms of scale and complexity (of provisi=
oning/maintaining the paths)<br>
See overall comments also.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></li></ol>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
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