[OPS-AREA]Re: [ippm] foo-over-QUIC Operational Motivatio ns & Challenges

"[email protected]" <[email protected]> Fri, 3 Jul 2026 14:53:46 +0200
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Dear all,

On that front of foo-over-QUIC Operational Motivations & Challenges, we 
have been posting this brand new draft

URL:https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic-00.txt
Status:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic/
HTML:https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic-00.html
HTMLized:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic


                   QUIC Transport for Network Telemetry
                draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic-00

Abstract

    This document describes the use of the QUIC transport protocol as a
    common transport substrate for operational Network Telemetry
    protocols that currently rely on UDP.  Specifically, it discusses
    carrying protocols such as IPFIX, Syslog, YANG-Push UDP-Notif, and
    RADIUS Accounting over QUIC connections.  For telemetry protocols
    whose data plane is inherently loss-tolerant (where a missing sample
    is preferable to a delayed retransmission) this document recommends
    use of the Unreliable Datagram Extension to QUIC (DATAGRAM frames).

    A primary motivation for this work is the unification of transport-
    layer security across heterogeneous telemetry protocols.  Protocols
    that currently have no mandatory transport security (syslog over UDP)
    or optional-only security (IPFIX over UDP with DTLS) or weak security
    (RADIUS with MD5 obfuscation) would all benefit from the mandatory
    TLS 1.3 mutual authentication that QUIC provides.  This document
    specifically addresses the operational advantages of managing a
    single PKI certificate lifecycle per Network Node to authenticate all
    telemetry streams.

    This document is intended as a framework and applicability statement.
    Per-protocol bindings that require normative specification are
    expected to be chartered in their respective IETF working groups.

Regards, Benoit (on behalf of the authors)



On 02/04/2026 17:33, [email protected] wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> Many proposals (*) are being promoted in several IETF WGs to port 
> protocols widely used in operator networks to be transported over 
> QUIC. There are several technical arguments that motivate such 
> extensions, however, porting protocols used within operator networks 
> to support QUIC would have some impacts on fault isolation, 
> troubleshooting, etc. Because of the lack of the visibility on the 
> transport headers, providing feature parity may be challenging without 
> tools upgrade and also logistic (e.g., synchronize keys to decode 
> messages, etc.).
>
> There is a need to (1) have a common understanding of the operational 
> benefits, (2) understand the underlying challenges that can be 
> inherited especially when the connection endpoints are not adjacent to 
> each others, and (3) identify deployment incentives especially when 
> there are alternate mechanisms to achieve similar objectives (TLS, 
> etc.), (4) identify whether there are specific missing QUIC features 
> that would ease use in operators network , and (5) explore whether 
> there is common operational guidance that can inform most of these 
> extensions (and similar).
>
> Per (cced) kindly accepted to coordinate and lead the discussion on 
> this topic. Per will be presenting the outcome during IETF#126. Many 
> thanks Per!
>
> This is thus a call for inputs and feedback on this topic. Feel free 
> to use this thread, get in touch with Per, or fill PRs/Issues using 
> https://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD/foo-over-QUIC-Operational-Considerations 
> <https://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD/foo-over-QUIC-Operational-Considerations>. 
>
>
> Thank you
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
> (*)
>
>   * draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic
>     <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic/>:
>     NETCONF over QUIC
>   * draft-liu-grow-bmp-over-quic
>     <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liu-grow-bmp-over-quic/>:
>     Using BMP over QUIC connection
>   * draft-liu-sidrops-rpki-rtr-over-quic
>     <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liu-sidrops-rpki-rtr-over-quic/>:
>     RPKI to Router Protocol over QUIC
>   * draft-llg-opsawg-ipfix-over-quic
>     <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-llg-opsawg-ipfix-over-quic/>:
>     IPFIX Protocol over QUIC
>   * draft-retana-idr-bgp-quic
>     <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-retana-idr-bgp-quic/>: BGP
>     over QUIC
>   * draft-yl-radext-quic-transport
>     <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yl-radext-quic-transport/>:
>     RADIUS over QUIC
>   * draft-yang-pce-pcep-over-quic
>     <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yang-pce-pcep-over-quic/>:
>     PCEP over QUIC
>   * draft-cel-nfsv4-rpc-over-quicv1
>     <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cel-nfsv4-rpc-over-quicv1/>:
>     Remote Procedure Call over QUIC Version 1
>   * draft-ietf-regext-epp-quic
>     <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-regext-epp-quic/>:
>     Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP) Transport over QUIC
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
>
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list [email protected]
> To unsubscribe send an email [email protected]

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    Dear all,<br>
    <br>
    On that front of foo-over-QUIC Operational Motivations &amp;
    Challenges, we have been posting this brand new draft<br>
    <br>
    <pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">URL:      <a
    class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic-00.txt">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic-00.txt</a>
Status:   <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic/</a>
HTML:     <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic-00.html">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic-00.html</a>
HTMLized: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic</a></pre>
    <br>
    <pre>                  QUIC Transport for Network Telemetry
               draft-netana-opsawg-telemetry-over-quic-00

Abstract

   This document describes the use of the QUIC transport protocol as a
   common transport substrate for operational Network Telemetry
   protocols that currently rely on UDP.  Specifically, it discusses
   carrying protocols such as IPFIX, Syslog, YANG-Push UDP-Notif, and
   RADIUS Accounting over QUIC connections.  For telemetry protocols
   whose data plane is inherently loss-tolerant (where a missing sample
   is preferable to a delayed retransmission) this document recommends
   use of the Unreliable Datagram Extension to QUIC (DATAGRAM frames).

   A primary motivation for this work is the unification of transport-
   layer security across heterogeneous telemetry protocols.  Protocols
   that currently have no mandatory transport security (syslog over UDP)
   or optional-only security (IPFIX over UDP with DTLS) or weak security
   (RADIUS with MD5 obfuscation) would all benefit from the mandatory
   TLS 1.3 mutual authentication that QUIC provides.  This document
   specifically addresses the operational advantages of managing a
   single PKI certificate lifecycle per Network Node to authenticate all
   telemetry streams.

   This document is intended as a framework and applicability statement.
   Per-protocol bindings that require normative specification are
   expected to be chartered in their respective IETF working groups.

Regards, Benoit (on behalf of the authors)</pre>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 02/04/2026 17:33,
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:PATP264MB676505917F8C7EACD83CED468851A@PATP264MB6765.FRAP264.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Hi all<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Many proposals
            (*) are being promoted in several IETF WGs to port protocols
            widely used in operator networks to be transported over
            QUIC. There are several technical arguments that motivate
            such extensions, however, porting protocols used within
            operator networks to support QUIC would have some impacts on
            fault isolation, troubleshooting, etc. Because of the lack
            of the visibility on the transport headers, providing
            feature parity may be challenging without tools upgrade and
            also logistic (e.g., synchronize keys to decode messages,
            etc.).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">There is a need
            to (1) have a common understanding of the operational
            benefits, (2) understand the underlying challenges that can
            be inherited especially when the connection endpoints are
            not adjacent to each others, and (3) identify deployment
            incentives especially when there are alternate mechanisms to
            achieve similar objectives (TLS, etc.), (4) identify whether
            there are specific missing QUIC features that would ease use
            in operators network , and (5) explore whether there is
            common operational guidance that can inform most of these
            extensions (and similar).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Per (cced)
            kindly accepted to coordinate and lead the discussion on
            this topic. Per will be presenting the outcome during
            IETF#126. Many thanks Per!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">This is thus a
            call for inputs and feedback on this topic. Feel free to use
            this thread, get in touch with Per, or fill PRs/Issues using
          </span><span style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a
href="https://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD/foo-over-QUIC-Operational-Considerations"
              moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">https://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD/foo-over-QUIC-Operational-Considerations</span></a></span><span
            lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">.
            <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Thank you<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Med<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">(*)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <ul style="margin-top:0cm" type="disc">
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic/"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic</span></a></span><span
              lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">:
              NETCONF over QUIC<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liu-grow-bmp-over-quic/"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">draft-liu-grow-bmp-over-quic</span></a></span><span
              lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">:
              Using BMP over QUIC connection<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-liu-sidrops-rpki-rtr-over-quic/"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">draft-liu-sidrops-rpki-rtr-over-quic</span></a></span><span
              lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">:
              RPKI to Router Protocol over QUIC<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-llg-opsawg-ipfix-over-quic/"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">draft-llg-opsawg-ipfix-over-quic</span></a></span><span
              lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">:
              IPFIX Protocol over QUIC<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-retana-idr-bgp-quic/"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">draft-retana-idr-bgp-quic</span></a></span><span
              lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">:
              BGP over QUIC<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yl-radext-quic-transport/"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">draft-yl-radext-quic-transport</span></a></span><span
              lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">:
              RADIUS over QUIC<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yang-pce-pcep-over-quic/"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">draft-yang-pce-pcep-over-quic</span></a></span><span
              lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">:
              PCEP over QUIC<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cel-nfsv4-rpc-over-quicv1/"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">draft-cel-nfsv4-rpc-over-quicv1</span></a></span><span
              lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">:
              Remote Procedure Call over QUIC Version 1<o:p></o:p></span></li>
          <li class="MsoNormal" style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2"><span
              style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a
href="https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-regext-epp-quic/"
                moz-do-not-send="true"><span lang="EN-US">draft-ietf-regext-epp-quic</span></a></span><span
              lang="EN-US" style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">:
              Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP) Transport over QUIC<o:p></o:p></span></li>
        </ul>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"
            style="font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
      </div>
      <pre>_________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_
Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
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Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.</pre>
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