[OPS-AREA]Re: [ippm] foo-over-QUIC Operational Motivatio ns & Challenges
"Lucas Pardue" <[email protected]> Fri, 03 Jul 2026 21:03:18 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.ops,gmane.ietf.opsawg,gmane.ietf.ippm |
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| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============0481065638392772946== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=de66f9b62b52e5e898c86934d3d3468787f09056 --de66f9b62b52e5e898c86934d3d3468787f09056 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, It seems remiss not to include the QUIC WG in this discussion, it likely= overlaps with topics in the second work area of the charter [1]: > The second area of work is supporting the deployability of QUIC, which includes specifications, such as specification of a logging=20 format and operation with load balancers; and informational documents=20 such as applicability and manageability statements, and more. That's not to say that any work would have to happen in the QUIC WG. I s= uspect there's a large population that have experience deploying and ope= rating it that do not hang out in the Ops area and might have input to s= hare. Cheers Lucas [1] - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-quic/ On Thu, Apr 2, 2026, at 16:33, [email protected] wrote: > Hi all > =20 > Many proposals (*) are being promoted in several IETF WGs to port prot= ocols widely used in operator networks to be transported over QUIC. Ther= e are several technical arguments that motivate such extensions, however= , porting protocols used within operator networks to support QUIC would = have some impacts on fault isolation, troubleshooting, etc. Because of t= he lack of the visibility on the transport headers, providing feature pa= rity may be challenging without tools upgrade and also logistic (e.g., s= ynchronize keys to decode messages, etc.). > =20 > There is a need to (1) have a common understanding of the operational = benefits, (2) understand the underlying challenges that can be inherited= especially when the connection endpoints are not adjacent to each other= s, and (3) identify deployment incentives especially when there are alte= rnate mechanisms to achieve similar objectives (TLS, etc.), (4) identify= whether there are specific missing QUIC features that would ease use in= operators network , and (5) explore whether there is common operational= guidance that can inform most of these extensions (and similar). > =20 > Per (cced) kindly accepted to coordinate and lead the discussion on th= is topic. Per will be presenting the outcome during IETF#126. Many thank= s Per! > =20 > This is thus a call for inputs and feedback on this topic. Feel free t= o use this thread, get in touch with Per, or fill PRs/Issues using https= ://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD/foo-over-QUIC-Operational-Considerations. > =20 > Thank you > =20 > Cheers, > Med > =20 > (*) > =E2=80=A2 draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic <https://datatracker.ietf.org/= doc/draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic/>: NETCONF over QUIC > =E2=80=A2 draft-liu-grow-bmp-over-quic <https://datatracker.ietf.org/= doc/draft-liu-grow-bmp-over-quic/>: Using BMP over QUIC connection > =E2=80=A2 draft-liu-sidrops-rpki-rtr-over-quic <https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-liu-sidrops-rpki-rtr-over-quic/>: RPKI to Router Proto= col over QUIC > =E2=80=A2 draft-llg-opsawg-ipfix-over-quic <https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/draft-llg-opsawg-ipfix-over-quic/>: IPFIX Protocol over QUIC > =E2=80=A2 draft-retana-idr-bgp-quic <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /draft-retana-idr-bgp-quic/>: BGP over QUIC > =E2=80=A2 draft-yl-radext-quic-transport <https://datatracker.ietf.or= g/doc/draft-yl-radext-quic-transport/>: RADIUS over QUIC > =E2=80=A2 draft-yang-pce-pcep-over-quic <https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/draft-yang-pce-pcep-over-quic/>: PCEP over QUIC > =E2=80=A2 draft-cel-nfsv4-rpc-over-quicv1 <https://datatracker.ietf.o= rg/doc/draft-cel-nfsv4-rpc-over-quicv1/>: Remote Procedure Call over QUI= C Version 1 > =E2=80=A2 draft-ietf-regext-epp-quic <https://datatracker.ietf.org/do= c/draft-ietf-regext-epp-quic/>: Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP) T= ransport over QUIC > =20 > ______________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________ > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con= fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez= recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messag= es electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform= e ou falsifie. Merci. >=20 > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege= d information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and= delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >=20 --de66f9b62b52e5e898c86934d3d3468787f09056 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title><style type=3D"text/css">#qt p= .qt-MsoNormal,#qt li.qt-MsoNormal{margin-top:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin= -bottom:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:11pt;font-family:"Aptos", sans-ser= if;}=0A#qt a:link{color:rgb(70, 120, 134);text-decoration-color:currentc= olor;text-decoration-line:underline;text-decoration-style:solid;text-dec= oration-thickness:auto;}=0A#qt ul{margin-bottom:0cm;}=0A=0A</style></hea= d><body><div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>It seems remiss not to include= the QUIC WG in this discussion, it likely overlaps with topics in the s= econd work area of the charter [1]:</div><div><br></div><div>> T= he second area of work is supporting the deployability of QUIC,</div><di= v> which includes specifications, such as specification of a logging </d= iv><div> format and operation with load balancers; and informational doc= uments </div><div> such as applicability and manageability statements, a= nd more.</div><div><br></div><div>That's not to say that any work would = have to happen in the QUIC WG. I suspect there's a large population that= have experience deploying and operating it that do not hang out in the = Ops area and might have input to share.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers<= /div><div>Lucas</div><div><br></div><div>[1] - <a href=3D"https://d= atatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-quic/">https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/charter-ietf-quic/</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>On Thu, Apr 2, = 2026, at 16:33, <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">moh= [email protected]</a> wrote:</div><blockquote type=3D"cite" id=3D= "qt" style=3D"overflow-wrap:break-word;"><div class=3D"qt-WordSection1">= <p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:&quo= t;Courier New";">Hi all</span></p><p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><span c= lass=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";"> </spa= n></p><p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-famil= y:"Courier New";">Many proposals (*) are being promoted in sev= eral IETF WGs to port protocols widely used in operator networks to be t= ransported over QUIC. There are several technical arguments that motivate= =0A such extensions, however, porting protocols used within operator net= works to support QUIC would have some impacts on fault isolation, troubl= eshooting, etc. Because of the lack of the visibility on the transport h= eaders, providing feature parity may be challenging=0A without tools upg= rade and also logistic (e.g., synchronize keys to decode messages, etc.)= .</span></p><p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font= -family:"Courier New";"> </span></p><p class=3D"qt-MsoNor= mal"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";"= >There is a need to (1) have a common understanding of the operational b= enefits, (2) understand the underlying challenges that can be inherited = especially when the connection endpoints=0A are not adjacent to each oth= ers, and (3) identify deployment incentives especially when there are al= ternate mechanisms to achieve similar objectives (TLS, etc.), (4) identi= fy whether there are specific missing QUIC features that would ease use = in operators=0A network , and (5) explore whether there is common operat= ional guidance that can inform most of these extensions (and similar).</= span></p><p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-fa= mily:"Courier New";"> </span></p><p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal= "><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";">Pe= r (cced) kindly accepted to coordinate and lead the discussion on this t= opic. Per will be presenting the outcome during IETF#126. Many thanks Pe= r!</span></p><p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"fon= t-family:"Courier New";"> </span></p><p class=3D"qt-MsoNo= rmal"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";= ">This is thus a call for inputs and feedback on this topic. Feel free t= o use this thread, get in touch with Per, or fill PRs/Issues using </spa= n><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";"><a= href=3D"https://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD/foo-over-QUIC-Operational-Consid= erations"><span lang=3D"EN-US">https://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD/foo-over-Q= UIC-Operational-Considerations</span></a></span><span class=3D"font" sty= le=3D"font-family:"Courier New";">.</span></p><p class=3D"qt-M= soNormal"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New&qu= ot;;"> </span></p><p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><span class=3D"font" st= yle=3D"font-family:"Courier New";">Thank you</span></p><p clas= s=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:"Couri= er New";"> </span></p><p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><span class=3D= "font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";">Cheers,</span></p>= <p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:&quo= t;Courier New";">Med</span></p><p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><span clas= s=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";"> </span><= /p><p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:&= quot;Courier New";">(*)</span></p><ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm;" typ= e=3D"disc"><li class=3D"qt-MsoNormal" style=3D""><span class=3D"font" st= yle=3D"font-family:"Courier New";"><a href=3D"https://datatrac= ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic/"><span lang=3D"EN-US">dra= ft-ietf-netconf-over-quic</span></a></span><span class=3D"font" style=3D= "font-family:"Courier New";">:=0A NETCONF over QUIC</span></li= ><li class=3D"qt-MsoNormal" style=3D""><span class=3D"font" style=3D"fon= t-family:"Courier New";"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.o= rg/doc/draft-liu-grow-bmp-over-quic/"><span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-liu-gro= w-bmp-over-quic</span></a></span><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-fami= ly:"Courier New";">:=0A Using BMP over QUIC connection</span><= /li><li class=3D"qt-MsoNormal" style=3D""><span class=3D"font" style=3D"= font-family:"Courier New";"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-liu-sidrops-rpki-rtr-over-quic/"><span lang=3D"EN-US">dr= aft-liu-sidrops-rpki-rtr-over-quic</span></a></span><span class=3D"font"= style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";">:=0A RPKI to Router Prot= ocol over QUIC</span></li><li class=3D"qt-MsoNormal" style=3D""><span cl= ass=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";"><a href=3D"h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-llg-opsawg-ipfix-over-quic/"><span= lang=3D"EN-US">draft-llg-opsawg-ipfix-over-quic</span></a></span><span = class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";">:=0A IPFIX= Protocol over QUIC</span></li><li class=3D"qt-MsoNormal" style=3D""><sp= an class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";"><a href= =3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-retana-idr-bgp-quic/"><span l= ang=3D"EN-US">draft-retana-idr-bgp-quic</span></a></span><span class=3D"= font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";">:=0A BGP over QUIC<= /span></li><li class=3D"qt-MsoNormal" style=3D""><span class=3D"font" st= yle=3D"font-family:"Courier New";"><a href=3D"https://datatrac= ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yl-radext-quic-transport/"><span lang=3D"EN-US">d= raft-yl-radext-quic-transport</span></a></span><span class=3D"font" styl= e=3D"font-family:"Courier New";">:=0A RADIUS over QUIC</span><= /li><li class=3D"qt-MsoNormal" style=3D""><span class=3D"font" style=3D"= font-family:"Courier New";"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-yang-pce-pcep-over-quic/"><span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-yan= g-pce-pcep-over-quic</span></a></span><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font= -family:"Courier New";">:=0A PCEP over QUIC</span></li><li cla= ss=3D"qt-MsoNormal" style=3D""><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family= :"Courier New";"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-cel-nfsv4-rpc-over-quicv1/"><span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-cel-nfsv4-rp= c-over-quicv1</span></a></span><span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family= :"Courier New";">:=0A Remote Procedure Call over QUIC Version = 1</span></li><li class=3D"qt-MsoNormal" style=3D""><span class=3D"font" = style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";"><a href=3D"https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-regext-epp-quic/"><span lang=3D"EN-US">dra= ft-ietf-regext-epp-quic</span></a></span><span class=3D"font" style=3D"f= ont-family:"Courier New";">:=0A Extensible Provisioning Protoc= ol (EPP) Transport over QUIC</span></li></ul><p class=3D"qt-MsoNormal"><= span class=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:"Courier New";"> = ;</span></p></div><pre>_________________<wbr>___________________________= ___<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_____________________________= _<wbr>_=0ACe message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informat= ions confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc=0Apas etre diffu= ses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message= par erreur, veuillez le signaler=0Aa l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi = que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'= alteration,=0AOrange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete al= tere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci.=0A=0AThis message and its attachments = may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected= by law;=0Athey should not be distributed, used or copied without author= isation.=0AIf you have received this email in error, please notify the s= ender and delete this message and its attachments.=0AAs emails may be al= tered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, change= d or falsified.=0AThank you.</pre><div>_________________________________= ______________</div><div>ippm mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:ipp= [email protected]">[email protected]</a></div><div>To unsubscribe send an email to&= nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a></div= ><div><br></div></blockquote><div><br></div></body></html> --de66f9b62b52e5e898c86934d3d3468787f09056-- --===============0481065638392772946== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KT1BTLUFSRUEg bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IC0tIG9wcy1hcmVhQGlldGYub3JnClRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlIHNlbmQgYW4g ZW1haWwgdG8gb3BzLWFyZWEtbGVhdmVAaWV0Zi5vcmcK --===============0481065638392772946==--