[ippm] Re: foo-over-QUIC Operational Motivations & Challen ges
[email protected] Fri, 24 Jul 2026 10:23:40 +0000
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--===============7288980905619246780== Content-Language: fr-FR Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_PAUP264MB6756706728AA7F31866E46F588CF2PAUP264MB6756FRAP_" --_000_PAUP264MB6756706728AA7F31866E46F588CF2PAUP264MB6756FRAP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Lucas, all, Thanks for the comments here but also during the ops-area sessions. Looking= forward having an update about the guidance you and Gorry mentioned. It would be great if here in ops, a list of operational considerations and = needs specific to the intended use within operator networks are captured in= some form. Cheers, Med De : Lucas Pardue <[email protected]> Envoy=E9 : vendredi 3 juillet 2026 22:03 =C0 : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <[email protected]>; ops-area@= ietf.org; Operations and Management Area Working Group Discussion List <ops= [email protected]>; Nmop <[email protected]>; IETF IPPM WG <[email protected]>; QUIC WG = Chairs <[email protected]> Cc : Per Andersson <[email protected]> Objet : Re: [ippm] foo-over-QUIC Operational Motivations & Challenges Hi, It seems remiss not to include the QUIC WG in this discussion, it likely ov= erlaps with topics in the second work area of the charter [1]: > The second area of work is supporting the deployability of QUIC, which includes specifications, such as specification of a logging format and operation with load balancers; and informational documents such as applicability and manageability statements, and more. That's not to say that any work would have to happen in the QUIC WG. I susp= ect there's a large population that have experience deploying and operating= it that do not hang out in the Ops area and might have input to share. Cheers Lucas [1] - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-quic/ On Thu, Apr 2, 2026, at 16:33, [email protected]<mailto:mohamed.= [email protected]> wrote: Hi all Many proposals (*) are being promoted in several IETF WGs to port protocols= widely used in operator networks to be transported over QUIC. There are se= veral technical arguments that motivate such extensions, however, porting p= rotocols used within operator networks to support QUIC would have some impa= cts on fault isolation, troubleshooting, etc. Because of the lack of the vi= sibility on the transport headers, providing feature parity may be challeng= ing without tools upgrade and also logistic (e.g., synchronize keys to deco= de messages, etc.). There is a need to (1) have a common understanding of the operational benef= its, (2) understand the underlying challenges that can be inherited especia= lly when the connection endpoints are not adjacent to each others, and (3) = identify deployment incentives especially when there are alternate mechanis= ms to achieve similar objectives (TLS, etc.), (4) identify whether there ar= e specific missing QUIC features that would ease use in operators network ,= and (5) explore whether there is common operational guidance that can info= rm most of these extensions (and similar). Per (cced) kindly accepted to coordinate and lead the discussion on this to= pic. Per will be presenting the outcome during IETF#126. Many thanks Per! This is thus a call for inputs and feedback on this topic. Feel free to use= this thread, get in touch with Per, or fill PRs/Issues using https://githu= b.com/IETF-OPS-AD/foo-over-QUIC-Operational-Considerations. Thank you Cheers, Med (*) * draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i= etf-netconf-over-quic/>: NETCONF over QUIC * draft-liu-grow-bmp-over-quic<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-l= iu-grow-bmp-over-quic/>: Using BMP over QUIC connection * draft-liu-sidrops-rpki-rtr-over-quic<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /draft-liu-sidrops-rpki-rtr-over-quic/>: RPKI to Router Protocol over QUIC * draft-llg-opsawg-ipfix-over-quic<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra= ft-llg-opsawg-ipfix-over-quic/>: IPFIX Protocol over QUIC * draft-retana-idr-bgp-quic<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-reta= na-idr-bgp-quic/>: BGP over QUIC * draft-yl-radext-quic-transport<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft= -yl-radext-quic-transport/>: RADIUS over QUIC * draft-yang-pce-pcep-over-quic<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-= yang-pce-pcep-over-quic/>: PCEP over QUIC * draft-cel-nfsv4-rpc-over-quicv1<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf= t-cel-nfsv4-rpc-over-quicv1/>: Remote Procedure Call over QUIC Version 1 * draft-ietf-regext-epp-quic<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iet= f-regext-epp-quic/>: Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP) Transport over = QUIC ___________________________________________________________________________= _________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. 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Looking forward having = an update about the guidance you and Gorry mentioned.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p= ></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">It would be grea= t if here in ops, a list of operational considerations and needs specific t= o the intended use within operator networks are captured in some form.<o:p></o:p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p= ></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Cheers,<o:p></o:= p></span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Med<o:p></o:p></= span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-= family:"Courier New";mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p= ></span></p> <div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm = 4.0pt"> <div> <div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm = 0cm 0cm"> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"= ;Calibri",sans-serif">De :</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.= 0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lucas Pardue <lucaspard= [email protected]> <br> <b>Envoy=E9 :</b> vendredi 3 juillet 2026 22:03<br> <b>=C0 :</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.= com>; [email protected]; Operations and Management Area Working Group Di= scussion List <[email protected]>; Nmop <[email protected]>; IETF IPP= M WG <[email protected]>; QUIC WG Chairs <[email protected]><br> <b>Cc :</b> Per Andersson <[email protected]><br> <b>Objet :</b> Re: [ippm] foo-over-QUIC Operational Motivations & = Challenges<o:p></o:p></span></p> </div> </div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">It seems remiss not to include the QUIC WG in this d= iscussion, it likely overlaps with topics in the second work area of the ch= arter [1]:<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">> The second area of work is supporting the = deployability of QUIC,<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">which includes specifications, such as specification= of a logging <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">format and operation with load balancers; and inform= ational documents <o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">such as applicability and manageability statements, = and more.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">That's not to say that any work would have to happen= in the QUIC WG. I suspect there's a large population that have experience = deploying and operating it that do not hang out in the Ops area and might h= ave input to share.<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">Lucas<o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">[1] - <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/charter-ietf-quic/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-quic/<= /a><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p> </div> <div> <p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Apr 2, 2026, at 16:33, <a href=3D"mailt= o:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> wrote:<o:p= ></o:p></p> </div> <blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;overflow-wrap:bre= ak-word" id=3D"qt"> <div> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New"">Hi all</span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New""> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New"">Many proposals (*) are being promoted in several I= ETF WGs to port protocols widely used in operator networks to be transporte= d over QUIC. There are several technical arguments that motivate such extensions, however, porting protocols used within oper= ator networks to support QUIC would have some impacts on fault isolation, t= roubleshooting, etc. Because of the lack of the visibility on the transport= headers, providing feature parity may be challenging without tools upgrade and also logistic (e.g., synchron= ize keys to decode messages, etc.).</span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New""> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New"">There is a need to (1) have a common understanding= of the operational benefits, (2) understand the underlying challenges that= can be inherited especially when the connection endpoints are not adjacent to each others, and (3) identify deployment inc= entives especially when there are alternate mechanisms to achieve similar o= bjectives (TLS, etc.), (4) identify whether there are specific missing QUIC= features that would ease use in operators network , and (5) explore whether there is common operational gu= idance that can inform most of these extensions (and similar).</span></span= ><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New""> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New"">Per (cced) kindly accepted to coordinate and lead = the discussion on this topic. Per will be presenting the outcome during IET= F#126. Many thanks Per!</span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New""> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New"">This is thus a call for inputs and feedback on thi= s topic. Feel free to use this thread, get in touch with Per, or fill PRs/I= ssues using <a href=3D"https://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD/foo-over-QUIC-Operational-Conside= rations"> <span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#467886">https://github.com/IETF-OPS-AD= /foo-over-QUIC-Operational-Considerations</span></a>.</span></span><o:p></o= :p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New""> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New"">Thank you</span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New""> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New"">Cheers,</span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New"">Med</span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New""> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New"">(*)</span></span><o:p></o:p></p> <ul style=3D"margin-top:0cm" type=3D"disc"> <li class=3D"qt-msonormal2" style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span class= =3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""><a href=3D"ht= tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic/"><span lang=3D= "EN-US" style=3D"color:#467886">draft-ietf-netconf-over-quic</span></a>: NETCONF over QUIC</span></span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"qt-msonormal2"= style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font= -family:"Courier New""><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/do= c/draft-liu-grow-bmp-over-quic/"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#46788= 6">draft-liu-grow-bmp-over-quic</span></a>: Using BMP over QUIC connection</span></span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"q= t-msonormal2" style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span class=3D"font"><span = style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""><a href=3D"https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/draft-liu-sidrops-rpki-rtr-over-quic/"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"color:#467886">draft-liu-sidrops-rpki-rtr-over-quic</span></a>: RPKI to Router Protocol over QUIC</span></span><o:p></o:p></li><li class= =3D"qt-msonormal2" style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span class=3D"font"><= span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""><a href=3D"https://datat= racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-llg-opsawg-ipfix-over-quic/"><span lang=3D"EN-US"= style=3D"color:#467886">draft-llg-opsawg-ipfix-over-quic</span></a>: IPFIX Protocol over QUIC</span></span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"qt-mson= ormal2" style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span class=3D"font"><span style= =3D"font-family:"Courier New""><a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet= f.org/doc/draft-retana-idr-bgp-quic/"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#= 467886">draft-retana-idr-bgp-quic</span></a>: BGP over QUIC</span></span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"qt-msonormal2" sty= le=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-fam= ily:"Courier New""><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr= aft-yl-radext-quic-transport/"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#467886"= >draft-yl-radext-quic-transport</span></a>: RADIUS over QUIC</span></span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"qt-msonormal2" = style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-= family:"Courier New""><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc= /draft-yang-pce-pcep-over-quic/"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#46788= 6">draft-yang-pce-pcep-over-quic</span></a>: PCEP over QUIC</span></span><o:p></o:p></li><li class=3D"qt-msonormal2" st= yle=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-fa= mily:"Courier New""><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-cel-nfsv4-rpc-over-quicv1/"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#46788= 6">draft-cel-nfsv4-rpc-over-quicv1</span></a>: Remote Procedure Call over QUIC Version 1</span></span><o:p></o:p></li><li= class=3D"qt-msonormal2" style=3D"mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span class=3D"f= ont"><span style=3D"font-family:"Courier New""><a href=3D"https:/= /datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-regext-epp-quic/"><span lang=3D"EN-US"= style=3D"color:#467886">draft-ietf-regext-epp-quic</span></a>: Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP) Transport over QUIC</span></span><o= :p></o:p></li></ul> <p class=3D"qt-msonormal1"><span class=3D"font"><span style=3D"font-family:= "Courier New""> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p> </div> <pre>______________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con= fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<o:p></o:p></pre> <pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. 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