Re: meeting materials MUST be online well BEFOREthesession

A few notes from my side:

* I doubt that the reason for the slow progress in the IETF is related 
to the face-to-face meeting. The problem is the time in between meetings.

* Those who do not know what drafts have to be read for the meeting 
(because of an absent agenda) haven't followed the work in the working 
group and are therefore not very likely to read the drafts anyway. These 
folks need a tutorial or a monthly status update (we distribute these 
status update in DIME).

* BOFs are a completely separate subject. They typically need far more 
preparation for a variety of reasons. A different story.

* Reading through everyone's slides: Well. If you are really serious 
about that issue and you think you know everything better than the folks 
in the group then the chairs should write the slides for the group. 
(This makes the time management much easier. Additionally, you have to 
consider that some folks speak slow, are hard to understand, never get 
to the point, talk about things not written on the slides, etc. etc. ) 
The question is how much "show" do you want to provide during the meeting.

* Demanding that folks have their slides ready a week before the meeting 
is not realistic. We would have to cancel almost all our meetings. It 
would be nice to have everything available, great meeting minutes, good 
jabber scribes, briliant audio recordings, etc. Just a bit hard to make 
this happen. I tried to create podcasts myself during meetings but it 
was really tough to get a good output.

* If you believe that you have to wait for the IETF meeting to make 
"progress" then you are wrong. Do it in the time between meetings on the 
mailing list (or potentially via phone conf. calls). This is obviously 
best for "remote participants".

* The most important time during an IETF meeting are the hallway 
conversations and the socializing in the evening, before the IETF 
meeting starts and after the IETF meeting is finished. You can hardly 
deliver that experience to remote participants.

Ciao
Hannes




David Harrington wrote:
>  
>
>   
>> Yes, we could force presentations/meetings to be canceled if
>> slides/agendas aren't available.  But the question is: how does this
>> removal of work items actually benefit us?  It actually will 
>> inhibit our
>> already too-slow work process, not help it.  
>>     
>
>   
>> (Another option is to force them to give a talk at a 
>> microphone without
>> their slides; it'd still allow discussion without the presentation
>> material ;-)
>>     
>
> I think the "another option" suffers from the same problem as the
> cancellation option. I do not see how forcing people to discuss things
> at the microphone without the benefit of the slides they submitted
> late, benefits the IETF. I think this restriction would inhibit
> progress.
>
> Working for a Chinese company whose personnel often have difficulty
> attending meetings due to travel budget or visa concerns, and who
> frequently utilize our tools for remote participation, I am very
> sensitive to the importance of having the slides available for remote
> participants. But at this point in time, remote particiants are still
> a small minority in the IETF community, and penalizing the IETF
> community in attendance at the meeting because the remote participants
> might be inconvenienced does not make much sense to me.
>
> If we want to be serious about supporting remote participants (and I
> think we should), I think there are a lot of things besides having
> slides available that are important. In Dublin, as I watched chairs
> sometimes talk into their mikes, but not consistently, and chairs
> counting hands but not verbally reporting the results, and people at
> the mikes rushing through what they had to say rather than thinking
> about how well remote participants would be able to understand them, I
> thought to myself maybe every chair should be required to actually
> listen to and replay their recorded sessions to see just how difficult
> it is to be a remote participant in their WG. That might have a much
> greater effect toward supporting remote participants than cancelling
> presentations.
>
> dbh
>
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