Re: Intent to revive "expires" header from draft-ietf-mailext-new-fields-15

Isn't this more of a calendar function than a cleanup function?

If I miss a meeting notice that has an EXPIRES header, I don't
want it deleted, I might want it highlighted so I can apologize for
missing the meeting.  And it would be nice if the MUA would slide
soon-to-expire messages to the top of some priority list.

Maybe it's a personal choice, but I don't want a third party being
able to set a firm date-to-disappear on mail in my inbox.

Chris Eastlund
ATT

Keith Moore wrote:
> 
> Paul Smith wrote:
>>   So, what would you want the recipient MUA to do with these. The 
>> consensus seems to be that they should still receive them - so what 
>> difference does the 'expires' make? Automatically moving them into 
>> another folder when they arrive is nearly the same as automatically 
>> deleting them as far as many users goes! Showing them in grey or 
>> another colour doesn't stop people having to read them to see if 
>> they've missed something important.
> 
> often you can tell from the subject line whether a message is something 
> you actually need to read.  if the subject line of an expired message is 
> shown in grey, that's just another clue to help the recipient decide 
> whether to read the message or delete it.
> 
>> "confirm your subscription to list X in the next 3 days" is still 
>> important if you receive it 4 days later. Now you know you need to try 
>> again to get onto the list.
> 
> right, some messages become _more_ important after a given date...
> 
> it's at least possible that ordinary users might eventually learn how to 
> use such things as expiry dates.  for instance, many of my younger, 
> non-geek friends now seem to understand the value of Bcc.  I don't think 
> that was true 10 years ago.
> 
>> "I'm out of the office until ..." may be important, you may have been 
>> bad-mouthing a contact because they hadn't replied to you earlier, and 
>> now you'll know why
> 
> a good example of why automatically deleting a message based on expiry 
> date is a bad idea.
> 
>> "special offer valid until ..." may still be important from the 
>> sender's point of view as a "buy our wonderful flying car for only 
>> $15,000 before 30th July, look how amazing it is..." is still a good 
>> advertisement if it's received on the 1st August, and the recipient 
>> may still want it even though the special offer has expired.
> 
> yes, but most readers would not want it.  again, automatic deletion is a 
> bad idea but when the reader sees the summary line of the advert in grey 
> he'll likely infer that the offer has since expired.
> 
> I could imagine looking at the message summary in my ietf-announce 
> folder and seeing some LAST CALL announcements in grey and others in 
> black - and that would be useful in letting me know which messages to 
> ignore.
> 
> (I could even imagine configuring my MUA to show a message in red if the 
> expiry date were within say three days...but that probably wouldn't be 
> the right thing for most messages nearing expiration.)
> 
>> 'expires' only makes sense (IMV) if it would reduce the mail to be 
>> read by the recipient by getting rid of stuff that's absolutely no use 
>> any more. 
> 
> disagree.  I think it's useful as a tool to help people decide which 
> messages to read.   but my assumption is that other people do like I do 
> and look at the subject lines of messages to decide which ones to read.
> 
> Keith
>