Re: SIMPLE and Emergency Services

"Olle E. Johansson" <[email protected]> Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:38:13 +0100
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.simple
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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31 okt 2012 kl. 23:08 skrev Bernard Aboba <[email protected]>:

> In response to Olle's question about whether SIMPLE is an abject and =
irredeemable failure,  I would note that SIMPLE is still under =
consideration for use in emergency services, if only because XMPP isn't =
yet a viable alternative.  For example, both NENA i3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP =
mention SIMPLE, but refer to XMPP support of emergency services as =
future work.  In emergency scenarios, presence and address books are =
typically not considered since the PSAP is neither a presentity nor a =
watcher.   Instead, SIMPLE is used as a way of conveying information =
between the caller and PSAP, including location, a message body and =
additional data.=20
>=20
> With SMS to 911 under active discussion with regulatory bodies, the =
question about whether we can rely on SIMPLE for emergency use has =
become a "hot issue".   As an example, there has been a suggestion that =
MESSAGE could be used to  support conveyance of SMS text messages to a =
"text gateway"  that would then pass them on to the PSAP (possibly in a =
different form, such as translating to TTY/TDD).  Not only might this =
help standardize the transport of SMS messages to 911, but it would also =
support future uses of MESSAGE for next generation emergency services.=20=

>=20
> While documents like NENAi3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP still point to SIMPLE =
specs, some folks have pointed to the lack of support for MESSAGE in SIP =
trunking services as an indication that even basic uses of SIMPLE are =
unlikely to see much deployment, and that alternatives for disabled =
access to emergency services (such as RFC 4103 realtime text) should be =
given priority.=20
>=20
> IMHO,  unless XMPP for emergency uses is specified by IETF in the near =
future, it is likely that SIMPLE will find its way into emergency =
services architectures in some form.  Since the IETF is still =
recommending SIMPLE in documents such as ECRIT PhoneBCP, IMHO the IETF =
has a responsibility to public safety to address interop issues that =
will arise in next generation emergency services scenarios.  AFAIK, =
SIMPLE interop issues haven't killed anyone yet.  Hopefully this will =
remain true in the future. =20
Thank you for your response, Bernard.

Yes, if the emergency services don't want to sign a contract with a =
single vendor of both servers and clients, but wants to have a choice - =
we need to fix interoperability. I do understand that many of the issues =
we've discussed here doesn't apply - like XCAP documents and buddy =
lists, so it MAY be easier, to use RFC language :-)

Realtime Text with RFC 4103/T.140 is implemented in many places today =
(and supported by Asterisk :-) )
so that's something that should not be ignored, regardless of plans to =
support IM/Chat.

/O

>=20
> Olle E. Johansson said:=20
> "Any other thoughts in regards to SIMPLE?
>=20
> Is it a failure or not?
>=20
> Do we have a chance of fixing this within the IETF?
>=20
> Is anyone interested in fixing it so we actually reach the WG goal of =
interoperability?"
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Simple mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Diso-8859-1"><base href=3D"x-msg://286/"></head><body =
style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>31 okt 2012 kl. =
23:08 skrev Bernard Aboba &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt=
;:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"hmmessage" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><h1><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" size=3D"3"><span =
style=3D"font-weight: normal; white-space: pre-wrap; ">In response to =
Olle's question about whether SIMPLE is an abject and irredeemable =
failure,&nbsp; I would note that SIMPLE is still under consideration for =
use in emergency services, if only because XMPP isn't yet a viable =
alternative.  </span></font><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri, =
sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-weight: normal; white-space: pre-wrap; =
">For example, both NENA i3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP mention SIMPLE, but refer =
to XMPP support of emergency services as future work.  In emergency =
scenarios, presence and address books are typically not considered since =
the PSAP is neither a presentity nor a watcher.&nbsp;  Instead, SIMPLE =
is used as a way of conveying information between the caller and PSAP, =
including location, a message body and additional data. =
</span></h1><div><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><span =
style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; ">With SMS to 911 under active =
discussion with regulatory bodies, the question about whether we can =
rely on SIMPLE for emergency use has become a "hot issue".   As an =
example, there has been a suggestion that MESSAGE could be used to =
</span></font><span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif; "> support conveyance of SMS text messages to a =
"text gateway"  that would then pass them on to the PSAP (possibly in a =
different form, such as translating to TTY/TDD). &nbsp;Not only might =
this help standardize the transport of SMS messages to 911, but it would =
also support future uses of MESSAGE for next generation emergency =
services. </span></div><div><span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><br></span></div><div><span =
style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
">While documents like NENAi3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP still point to SIMPLE =
specs, some folks have pointed to the lack of support for MESSAGE in SIP =
trunking services as an indication that even basic uses of SIMPLE are =
unlikely to see much deployment, and that alternatives for disabled =
access to emergency services (such as RFC 4103 realtime text) should be =
given priority.&nbsp;</span></div><div><span style=3D"white-space: =
pre-wrap; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; =
"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; =
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; ">IMHO,  unless XMPP for emergency =
uses is specified by IETF in the near future, it is likely that SIMPLE =
will find its way into emergency services architectures in some form.  =
Since the IETF is still recommending SIMPLE in documents such as ECRIT =
PhoneBCP, IMHO the IETF has a responsibility to public safety to address =
interop issues that will arise in next generation emergency services =
scenarios.  AFAIK, SIMPLE interop issues haven't killed anyone yet.  =
Hopefully this will remain true in the future.  =
</span></div></div></div></blockquote>Thank you for your response, =
Bernard.</div><div><br></div><div>Yes, if the emergency services don't =
want to sign a contract with a single vendor of both servers and =
clients, but wants to have a choice - we need to fix interoperability. I =
do understand that many of the issues we've discussed here doesn't apply =
- like XCAP documents and buddy lists, so it MAY be easier, to use RFC =
language :-)</div><div><br></div><div>Realtime Text with RFC 4103/T.140 =
is implemented in many places today (and supported by Asterisk :-) =
)</div><div>so that's something that should not be ignored, regardless =
of plans to support =
IM/Chat.</div><div><br></div><div>/O</div><div><br><blockquote =
type=3D"cite"><div class=3D"hmmessage" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: Calibri; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; =
font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; =
orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: =
none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div =
dir=3D"ltr"><div><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><span =
style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; "><br></span></font></div><div><span =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; white-space: =
pre-wrap; ">Olle E. Johansson said:&nbsp;</span></div><pre =
style=3D"font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; white-space: =
pre-wrap; word-wrap: break-word; width: 1111.5px; ">"Any other thoughts =
in regards to SIMPLE?

Is it a failure or not?

Do we have a chance of fixing this within the IETF?

Is anyone interested in fixing it so we actually reach the WG goal of =
interoperability?"

=
<br></pre></div>_______________________________________________<br>Simple =
mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/simple</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html=
>=

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