Re: SIMPLE and Emergency Services

"DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" <[email protected]> Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:44:28 +0100
Newsgroups gmane.ietf.simple
Message-ID <EDC0A1AE77C57744B664A310A0B23AE202D2F6F6A9@FRMRSSXCHMBSC3.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com>
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Release 11 of 3GPP IMS specifications add session based media to emergency =
call usage in addition to voice and real time text. For messaging, that inc=
ludes MSRP.

While many countries are trying to ensure that PSAPs can handle SMS (which =
is not session based), this needs to be regarded as something that exists w=
here nothing else does - as it provides the responder with no ability to in=
terrogate the user to obtain more information.

For presence, nothing special has been specified by 3GPP.

Keith

________________________________
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of=
 Bernard Aboba
Sent: 31 October 2012 22:08
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and Emergency Services

In response to Olle's question about whether SIMPLE is an abject and irrede=
emable failure,  I would note that SIMPLE is still under consideration for =
use in emergency services, if only because XMPP isn't yet a viable alternat=
ive. For example, both NENA i3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP mention SIMPLE, but refer=
 to XMPP support of emergency services as future work. In emergency scenari=
os, presence and address books are typically not considered since the PSAP =
is neither a presentity nor a watcher.  Instead, SIMPLE is used as a way of=
 conveying information between the caller and PSAP, including location, a m=
essage body and additional data.
With SMS to 911 under active discussion with regulatory bodies, the questio=
n about whether we can rely on SIMPLE for emergency use has become a "hot i=
ssue". As an example, there has been a suggestion that MESSAGE could be use=
d to support conveyance of SMS text messages to a "text gateway" that would=
 then pass them on to the PSAP (possibly in a different form, such as trans=
lating to TTY/TDD).  Not only might this help standardize the transport of =
SMS messages to 911, but it would also support future uses of MESSAGE for n=
ext generation emergency services.


While documents like NENAi3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP still point to SIMPLE specs,=
 some folks have pointed to the lack of support for MESSAGE in SIP trunking=
 services as an indication that even basic uses of SIMPLE are unlikely to s=
ee much deployment, and that alternatives for disabled access to emergency =
services (such as RFC 4103 realtime text) should be given priority.


IMHO, unless XMPP for emergency uses is specified by IETF in the near futur=
e, it is likely that SIMPLE will find its way into emergency services archi=
tectures in some form. Since the IETF is still recommending SIMPLE in docum=
ents such as ECRIT PhoneBCP, IMHO the IETF has a responsibility to public s=
afety to address interop issues that will arise in next generation emergenc=
y services scenarios. AFAIK, SIMPLE interop issues haven't killed anyone ye=
t. Hopefully this will remain true in the future.


Olle E. Johansson said:

"Any other thoughts in regards to SIMPLE?



Is it a failure or not?



Do we have a chance of fixing this within the IETF?



Is anyone interested in fixing it so we actually reach the WG goal of inter=
operability?"





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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Release 11 of 3GPP IMS specifications =
add
session based media to emergency call usage in addition to voice and real t=
ime
text. For messaging, that includes MSRP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>While many countries are trying to ens=
ure
that PSAPs can handle SMS (which is not session based), this needs to be
regarded as something that exists where nothing else does &#8211; as it
provides the responder with no ability to interrogate the user to obtain mo=
re
information.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>For presence, nothing special has been
specified by 3GPP.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Keith<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span style=
=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'>

<div>

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e=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span>=
</font></b><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:Tahoma'>
[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] <b><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Bernard Aboba<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 31 October 2012 22:08<=
br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> [email protected]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Simple] SIMPLE=
 and
Emergency Services</span></font><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D=
'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<h1><b><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-f=
amily:
Calibri;font-weight:normal'>In response to Olle's question about whether SI=
MPLE
is an abject and irredeemable failure,&nbsp; I would note that SIMPLE is st=
ill
under consideration for use in emergency services, if only because XMPP isn=
't
yet a viable alternative. </span><span style=3D'white-space:pre-wrap'>For
example, both NENA i3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP mention SIMPLE, but refer to XMPP
support of emergency services as future work. In emergency scenarios, prese=
nce
and address books are typically not considered since the PSAP is neither a
presentity nor a watcher.&nbsp; Instead, SIMPLE is used as a way of conveyi=
ng
information between the caller and PSAP, including location, a message body=
 and
additional data. </span></span></font></b><font face=3DCalibri><span
style=3D'font-family:Calibri'><o:p></o:p></span></font></h1>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap'><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>With SMS to 911 under active
discussion with regulatory bodies, the question about whether we can rely o=
n
SIMPLE for emergency use has become a &quot;hot issue&quot;. As an example,
there has been a suggestion that MESSAGE could be used to </span><span
style=3D'white-space:pre-wrap'>support conveyance of SMS text messages to a
&quot;text gateway&quot; that would then pass them on to the PSAP (possibly=
 in
a different form, such as translating to TTY/TDD). &nbsp;Not only might thi=
s
help standardize the transport of SMS messages to 911, but it would also
support future uses of MESSAGE for next generation emergency services. </sp=
an><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div><span style=3D'white-space:pre-wrap'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</span>

<div><span style=3D'white-space:pre-wrap'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>While documents like NENAi3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP still p=
oint
to SIMPLE specs, some folks have pointed to the lack of support for MESSAGE=
 in
SIP trunking services as an indication that even basic uses of SIMPLE are
unlikely to see much deployment, and that alternatives for disabled access =
to
emergency services (such as RFC 4103 realtime text) should be given priorit=
y.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div><span style=3D'white-space:pre-wrap'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</span>

<div><span style=3D'white-space:pre-wrap'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>IMHO, unless XMPP for emergency uses is specified by I=
ETF
in the near future, it is likely that SIMPLE will find its way into emergen=
cy
services architectures in some form. Since the IETF is still recommending
SIMPLE in documents such as ECRIT PhoneBCP, IMHO the IETF has a responsibil=
ity
to public safety to address interop issues that will arise in next generati=
on
emergency services scenarios. AFAIK, SIMPLE interop issues haven't killed
anyone yet. Hopefully this will remain true in the future. </span><o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'white-spa=
ce:pre-wrap'><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri'><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

</span>

<div><span style=3D'white-space:pre-wrap'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size=
:12.0pt;
font-family:Calibri'>Olle E. Johansson said:&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span>=
</font></p>

</div>

<pre style=3D'white-space:pre-wrap;word-wrap: break-word'><font size=3D3
face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri'>&quot;A=
ny other thoughts in regards to SIMPLE?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre>=
<font
size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
'>Is it a failure or not?<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
'>Do we have a chance of fixing this within the IETF?<o:p></o:p></span></fo=
nt></pre><pre><font
size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
'>Is anyone interested in fixing it so we actually reach the WG goal of int=
eroperability?&quot;<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
size=3D3 face=3DCalibri><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Calibri=
'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></pre></div>

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