Re: SIMPLE and OMA and 3Gpp and RCS and… (new subject)
"Olle E. Johansson" <[email protected]> Thu, 1 Nov 2012 20:20:59 +0100
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.simple |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============3141148490129550351== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BE2B0F8D-257B-41EB-B651-6B044BC1C0C2" --Apple-Mail=_BE2B0F8D-257B-41EB-B651-6B044BC1C0C2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 1 nov 2012 kl. 19:40 skrev "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" = <[email protected]>: > As regards presence usage in 3GPP, my statement about presence related = to emergency usage only. > =20 > As a capability, 3GPP specified presence in release 6, in 3GPP TS = 24.141. This is an endorsement of IETF SIMPLE documents with the minor = exception of collection of presence information about the user using = existing 3GPP internal interfaces (e.g. status from HSS, location from = GMLC), which are then adapted into SIMPLE protocols. > =20 > OMA subsequently specified their stuff which enhances and expands on = IETF SIMPLE. > =20 > TISPAN took the 3GPP presence usage, but took the OMA XDM stuff to = cover the list management. > =20 > GSMA took the OMA documents to create RCS. > =20 > Operators could be deploying any of this, but I suspect they are using = RCS primarily. > =20 > And as said, none of this applies to emergency call to my knowledge, = except possibly in the context of the PSAP being a normal user and being = able to watch with those capabilities. Keith, Thanks for taking me through that dance... I now have a better = understanding. What is the current relationship betwen OMA and the IETF? ANy = cooperation, like between 3Gpp and the IETF? /O > =20 > Keith > =20 > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On = Behalf Of Olle E. Johansson > Sent: 01 November 2012 18:27 > To: DRAGE, Keith (Keith) > Cc: Bernard Aboba; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and Emergency Services > =20 > =20 > 1 nov 2012 kl. 16:44 skrev "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" = <[email protected]>: >=20 >=20 > Release 11 of 3GPP IMS specifications add session based media to = emergency call usage in addition to voice and real time text. For = messaging, that includes MSRP. > =20 > While many countries are trying to ensure that PSAPs can handle SMS = (which is not session based), this needs to be regarded as something = that exists where nothing else does =96 as it provides the responder = with no ability to interrogate the user to obtain more information. > =20 > For presence, nothing special has been specified by 3GPP. > Keith, > Please guide me through this. Is 3gpp not using the OMA specs?=20 > =20 > For me that is classified as "special" and not part of the IETF specs. = :-) > =20 > If not, have 3gpp tested interoperability of SIMPLE across vendors? = The ability to add buddies and share buddy lists, regardless of client? = Just curious of the process. > =20 > /O >=20 >=20 > =20 > Keith > =20 > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On = Behalf Of Bernard Aboba > Sent: 31 October 2012 22:08 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and Emergency Services > =20 > In response to Olle's question about whether SIMPLE is an abject and = irredeemable failure, I would note that SIMPLE is still under = consideration for use in emergency services, if only because XMPP isn't = yet a viable alternative. For example, both NENA i3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP = mention SIMPLE, but refer to XMPP support of emergency services as = future work. In emergency scenarios, presence and address books are = typically not considered since the PSAP is neither a presentity nor a = watcher. Instead, SIMPLE is used as a way of conveying information = between the caller and PSAP, including location, a message body and = additional data. >=20 > With SMS to 911 under active > discussion with regulatory bodies, the question about whether we can = rely on > SIMPLE for emergency use has become a "hot issue". As an example, > there has been a suggestion that MESSAGE could be used to support = conveyance of SMS text messages to a > "text gateway" that would then pass them on to the PSAP (possibly in > a different form, such as translating to TTY/TDD). Not only might = this > help standardize the transport of SMS messages to 911, but it would = also > support future uses of MESSAGE for next generation emergency services.=20= >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > While documents like NENAi3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP still point to SIMPLE = specs, some folks have pointed to the lack of support for MESSAGE in SIP = trunking services as an indication that even basic uses of SIMPLE are = unlikely to see much deployment, and that alternatives for disabled = access to emergency services (such as RFC 4103 realtime text) should be = given priority.=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > IMHO, unless XMPP for emergency uses is specified by IETF in the near = future, it is likely that SIMPLE will find its way into emergency = services architectures in some form. Since the IETF is still = recommending SIMPLE in documents such as ECRIT PhoneBCP, IMHO the IETF = has a responsibility to public safety to address interop issues that = will arise in next generation emergency services scenarios. AFAIK, = SIMPLE interop issues haven't killed anyone yet. Hopefully this will = remain true in the future. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Olle E. Johansson said:=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > "Any other thoughts in regards to SIMPLE? > =20 > Is it a failure or not? > =20 > Do we have a chance of fixing this within the IETF? > =20 > Is anyone interested in fixing it so we actually reach the WG goal of = interoperability?" > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Simple mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple > =20 --Apple-Mail=_BE2B0F8D-257B-41EB-B651-6B044BC1C0C2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 <html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html = charset=3Dwindows-1252"><base href=3D"x-msg://17/"></head><body = style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><br><div><div>1 nov 2012 kl. = 19:40 skrev "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.= com</a>>:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; = font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><div class=3D"Section1" style=3D"page: Section1; = "><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">As regards = presence usage in 3GPP, my statement about presence related to emergency = usage only.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">As a = capability, 3GPP specified presence in release 6, in 3GPP TS 24.141. = This is an endorsement of IETF SIMPLE documents with the minor exception = of collection of presence information about the user using existing 3GPP = internal interfaces (e.g. status from HSS, location from GMLC), which = are then adapted into SIMPLE = protocols.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">OMA = subsequently specified their stuff which enhances and expands on IETF = SIMPLE.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">TISPAN took = the 3GPP presence usage, but took the OMA XDM stuff to cover the list = management.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">GSMA took = the OMA documents to create RCS.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = "> </span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" = color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Operators could be deploying any of = this, but I suspect they are using RCS = primarily.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">And as = said, none of this applies to emergency call to my knowledge, except = possibly in the context of the PSAP being a normal user and being able = to watch with those capabilities.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" = face=3D"Arial"></font></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Keith,= </div><div>Thanks for taking me through that dance... I now have a = better understanding.</div><div><br></div><div>What is the current = relationship betwen OMA and the IETF? ANy cooperation, like between 3Gpp = and the IETF?</div><div><br></div><div>/O</div><div><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div lang=3D"EN-GB" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"blue" = style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; = font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; = line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><div class=3D"Section1" style=3D"page: Section1; = "><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: = 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = "> </span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" = color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; = ">Keith<o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; "> </span></font></div><div = style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; = border-left-color: blue; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt; "><div><div = class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; text-align: center; = "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span lang=3D"EN-US" = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; "><hr size=3D"2" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center"= tabindex=3D"-1"></span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font = size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: = 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; = ">From:</span></font></b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span = lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: blue; = text-decoration: underline; ">[email protected]</a><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:simple-<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: = underline; ">[email protected]</a>]<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span = style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">On Behalf Of<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Olle E. = Johansson<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; = ">Sent:</span></b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>01 = November 2012 18:27<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; = ">To:</span></b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>DRAGE, = Keith (Keith)<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; = ">Cc:</span></b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Bernard= Aboba;<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: = underline; ">[email protected]</a><br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; = ">Subject:</span></b><span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and = Emergency Services</span></font><span = lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm = 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; = "> </span></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; = "> </span></font></div><div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; ">1 = nov 2012 kl. 16:44 skrev "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: blue; = text-decoration: underline; = ">[email protected]</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></= div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; = "><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><div link=3D"blue" = vlink=3D"#606420" style=3D"orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; widows: = 2; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = word-spacing: 0px; "><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" = color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">Release 11 of 3GPP IMS specifications = add session based media to emergency call usage in addition to voice and = real time text. For messaging, that includes = MSRP.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">While many countries are = trying to ensure that PSAPs can handle SMS (which is not session based), = this needs to be regarded as something that exists where nothing else = does =96 as it provides the responder with no ability to interrogate the = user to obtain more = information.<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; ">For presence, nothing special = has been specified by = 3GPP.</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: = 12pt; ">Keith,<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; ">Please guide me through this. Is 3gpp not = using the OMA specs? <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></div></div><div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; ">For me that is classified as "special" and = not part of the IETF specs. = :-)<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm = 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; = "> </span></font></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; ">If = not, have 3gpp tested interoperability of SIMPLE across vendors? The = ability to add buddies and share buddy lists, regardless of client? Just = curious of the process.<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; "> </span></font></div></div><div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; = ">/O<o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm = 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; = "><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></font></div><u1:p></u1:p><div link=3D"blue" = vlink=3D"#606420" style=3D"orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; widows: = 2; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; = word-spacing: 0px; "><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" = color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: navy; = "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size:= 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = ">Keith<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"2" color=3D"navy" face=3D"Arial"><span = style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy; = "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div style=3D"border-style: = none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; border-left-color: blue; = padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt; "><div><div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center"= style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; text-align: center; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New = Roman"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; "><hr size=3D"2" = width=3D"100%" align=3D"center" = tabindex=3D"-1"></span></font></div><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font = size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: = 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; font-weight: bold; = ">From:</span></font></b><span class=3D"apple-converted-space"><font = size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: = 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; "> </span></font></span><font size=3D"2" = face=3D"Tahoma"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Tahoma; "><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline; "><font = color=3D"#606420"><span style=3D"color: rgb(96, 100, 32); = ">[email protected]</span></font></a><span = class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:simple-<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: = underline; "><font color=3D"#606420"><span style=3D"color: rgb(96, 100, = 32); ">[email protected]</span></font></a>]<span = class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span><b><span = style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">On Behalf Of<span = class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b>Bernard = Aboba<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">Sent:</span></b><span = class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span>31 October 2012 = 22:08<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold; ">To:</span></b><span = class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span><a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: = underline; "><font color=3D"#606420"><span style=3D"color: rgb(96, 100, = 32); ">[email protected]</span></font></a><br><b><span style=3D"font-weight:= bold; ">Subject:</span></b><span = class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Simple] SIMPLE and = Emergency = Services</span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div></div><u1:p></u1:p><div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Times New Roman"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; = "> <o:p></o:p></span></font></div></div><div><h1 = style=3D"margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 24pt; = font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><b><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = font-weight: normal; ">In response to Olle's question about whether = SIMPLE is an abject and irredeemable failure, I would note that = SIMPLE is still under consideration for use in emergency services, if = only because XMPP isn't yet a viable alternative.<span = class=3D"apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span = style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; "></span></font></b><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = ">For example, both NENA i3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP mention SIMPLE, but refer = to XMPP support of emergency services as future work. In emergency = scenarios, presence and address books are typically not considered since = the PSAP is neither a presentity nor a watcher. Instead, SIMPLE is = used as a way of conveying information between the caller and PSAP, = including location, a message body and additional = data.</span></font><o:p></o:p></h1><u1:p></u1:p><div><div style=3D"margin:= 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"white-space: = pre-wrap; "><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; ">With = SMS to 911 under active discussion with regulatory bodies, the question about whether we can = rely on SIMPLE for emergency use has become a "hot issue". As an example, there has been a suggestion that MESSAGE could be used to <span = style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; ">support conveyance of SMS text = messages to a "text gateway" that would then pass them on to the PSAP (possibly in a different form, such as translating to TTY/TDD). Not only might = this help standardize the transport of SMS messages to 911, but it would also support future uses of MESSAGE for next generation emergency services. = </span></span><u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><span= style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; "> <div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; "><br> <br> <br> </span></font><o:p></o:p></div> </div> </span></div><u1:p></u1:p><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = ">While documents like NENAi3 and ECRIT PhoneBCP still point to SIMPLE = specs, some folks have pointed to the lack of support for MESSAGE in SIP = trunking services as an indication that even basic uses of SIMPLE are = unlikely to see much deployment, and that alternatives for disabled = access to emergency services (such as RFC 4103 realtime text) should be = given = priority. </span><u1:p></u1:p></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><spa= n style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; "> <div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; "><br> <br> <br> </span></font><o:p></o:p></div> </div> </span></div><u1:p></u1:p><div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = ">IMHO, unless XMPP for emergency uses is specified by IETF in the near = future, it is likely that SIMPLE will find its way into emergency = services architectures in some form. Since the IETF is still = recommending SIMPLE in documents such as ECRIT PhoneBCP, IMHO the IETF = has a responsibility to public safety to address interop issues that = will arise in next generation emergency services scenarios. AFAIK, = SIMPLE interop issues haven't killed anyone yet. Hopefully this will = remain true in the = future.</span><u1:p></u1:p></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times = New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span = style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; "><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; = font-family: Calibri; "><br> <br> <br> </span></span></font><o:p></o:p></div></div><u1:p></u1:p><div><span = style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; "> <div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; = font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; ">Olle E. Johansson = said: </span><u1:p></u1:p></font><o:p></o:p></div> </div> </span></div><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; = font-family: 'Courier New'; white-space: pre-wrap; word-wrap: = break-word; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: = 12pt; font-family: Calibri; ">"Any other thoughts in regards to = SIMPLE?<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: = Calibri; "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: = Calibri; ">Is it a failure or = not?<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: = Calibri; "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: = Calibri; ">Do we have a chance of fixing this within the = IETF?<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: = Calibri; "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font = size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: = Calibri; ">Is anyone interested in fixing it so we actually reach the WG = goal of = interoperability?"<u1:p></u1:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></pre><pre = style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: = 'Courier New'; "><font size=3D"3" face=3D"Calibri"><span = style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm = 0.0001pt; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri; = "> </span></font><o:p></o:p></pre></div></div><div style=3D"margin: = 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; = "><font size=3D"4" face=3D"Helvetica"><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; = font-family: Helvetica; = ">_______________________________________________<br>Simple mailing = list<br><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"color: blue; = text-decoration: underline; "><font color=3D"#606420"><span = style=3D"color: rgb(96, 100, 32); = ">[email protected]</span></font></a><br><a = href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple" style=3D"color: = blue; text-decoration: underline; "><font color=3D"#606420"><span = style=3D"color: rgb(96, 100, 32); = ">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple</span></font></a><o:p></o:p= ></span></font></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; = font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman'; "><font size=3D"3" = face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; = "> </span></font></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></bod= y></html>= --Apple-Mail=_BE2B0F8D-257B-41EB-B651-6B044BC1C0C2-- --===============3141148490129550351== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Simple mailing list [email protected] https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/simple --===============3141148490129550351==--