[TLS] Re: Draft THURDAY minutes are at
Nadim Kobeissi <[email protected]> Thu, 23 Jul 2026 11:59:20 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.tls |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============6224979525839591468== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BF201E61-D42F-4289-86DD-752F1C529D38" --Apple-Mail=_BF201E61-D42F-4289-86DD-752F1C529D38 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Sorry for the double email, I just wanted to add some additional = context. A few days before this poll for more =E2=80=9Cdraconian=E2=80=9D = moderation, the chairs explicitly and completely refused [1] to answer = reasonable questions from the European Commission=E2=80=99s Team Leader = on Post-Quantum Cryptography [2]. I wrote about why this was a mistake = [3] and asked the chairs to reconsider. A few days later, we didn=E2=80=99t get any substantive response to = Fabiana=E2=80=99s reasonable questions, but instead got this poll = expressing what appears to be overwhelming support for =E2=80=9Cdraconian = moderation=E2=80=9D. According to the thesaurus (I=E2=80=99m not a = native English speaker, so you=E2=80=99ll have to forgive me), synonyms = to draconian include =E2=80=9Cauthoritarian=E2=80=9D, and examples for = the usage of the word in the Cambridge Dictionary include "He criticized = the draconian measures taken by the police in controlling the = demonstrators.=E2=80=9D [3] I really would appreciate it if the chairs could (perhaps urgently) = clarify in which directions they plan to take the list, especially in = light of their response to Fabiana=E2=80=99s queries and in light of = these bizarre line items in the IETF meeting minutes where there=E2=80=99s= a vote for =E2=80=9Cdraconian moderation", which also started with the = line "Complaints about ML-KEM and ML-DSA drafts were denied by the = chairs (and then escalated)=E2=80=9D. The timing here is unsettling. Thank you for reading my concerns, [1] = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/RLDcZHHbCUZRgmmWbP1j2dDQhAQ/=20= [2] = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/2rbof_YfCt5pjKKUy4NUf8ZlRiE/ [3] = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/O5tgVST_oEtwC5-PvoD-xaMEKRk/ [4] https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/draconian=20 Nadim Kobeissi Symbolic Software =E2=80=A2 https://symbolic.software > On 23 Jul 2026, at 11:48=E2=80=AFAM, Nadim Kobeissi = <[email protected]> wrote: >=20 > Hi everyone, >=20 > Thanks Rich for these meeting notes. >=20 > I=E2=80=99m a bit alarmed at the following item in the notes: >=20 > "Poll: Should chairs be more draconian in doing moderation? = y/n/no-opinion 65/2/7=E2=80=9D >=20 > The Cambridge Dictionary defines =E2=80=9Cdraconian=E2=80=9D as = =E2=80=9Cgoes further than what is right or necessary=E2=80=9D. >=20 > Um=E2=80=A6 is =E2=80=9Cdraconian=E2=80=9D really the term that was = used by the poll? And were those really the results of the poll? Who = proposed a poll where the chairs are being asked to =E2=80=9Cgo further = than what is right or necessary=E2=80=9D, and who=E2=80=99s supporting = this? >=20 > This is creepy to say the least. >=20 > Nadim Kobeissi > Symbolic Software =E2=80=A2 https://symbolic.software >=20 >> On 23 Jul 2026, at 11:34=E2=80=AFAM, Salz, Rich = <[email protected]> wrote: >>=20 >> https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-126-tls >>=20 >> There are two places where I missed the discussion =E2=80=9C(missed)=E2= =80=9D notation. Please help fix that. >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> TLS mailing list -- [email protected] >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >=20 > _______________________________________________ > TLS mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] --Apple-Mail=_BF201E61-D42F-4289-86DD-752F1C529D38 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html aria-label=3D"message body"><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" = content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body = style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = line-break: after-white-space;">Sorry for the double email, I just = wanted to add some additional context.<div><br></div><div>A few days = before this poll for more =E2=80=9Cdraconian=E2=80=9D moderation, the = chairs explicitly and completely refused [1] to answer reasonable = questions from the European Commission=E2=80=99s Team Leader on = Post-Quantum Cryptography [2]. I wrote about why this was a mistake [3] = and asked the chairs to reconsider.</div><div><br></div><div>A few days = later, we didn=E2=80=99t get any substantive response to Fabiana=E2=80=99s= reasonable questions, but instead got this poll expressing what appears = to be overwhelming support for =E2=80=9Cdraconian moderation=E2=80=9D. = According to the thesaurus (I=E2=80=99m not a native English speaker, so = you=E2=80=99ll have to forgive me), synonyms to draconian include = =E2=80=9Cauthoritarian=E2=80=9D, and examples for the usage of the word = in the Cambridge Dictionary include "He criticized the draconian = measures taken by the police in controlling the demonstrators.=E2=80=9D = [3]</div><div><br></div><div>I really would appreciate it if the chairs = could (perhaps urgently) clarify in which directions they plan to take = the list, especially in light of their response to Fabiana=E2=80=99s = queries and in light of these bizarre line items in the IETF meeting = minutes where there=E2=80=99s a vote for =E2=80=9Cdraconian moderation", = which also started with the line "Complaints about ML-KEM and ML-DSA = drafts were denied by the chairs (and then = escalated)=E2=80=9D.</div><div><br></div><div>The timing here is = unsettling.</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for reading my = concerns,</div><div><br></div><div>[1] <a = href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/RLDcZHHbCUZRgmmWbP1j2dDQ= hAQ/">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/RLDcZHHbCUZRgmmWbP1j2dDQhA= Q/</a> </div><div>[2] <a = href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/2rbof_YfCt5pjKKUy4NUf8Zl= RiE/">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/2rbof_YfCt5pjKKUy4NUf8ZlRi= E/</a></div><div>[3] <a = href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/O5tgVST_oEtwC5-PvoD-xaME= KRk/">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/O5tgVST_oEtwC5-PvoD-xaMEKR= k/</a></div><div>[4] <a = href=3D"https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/draconian">htt= ps://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/draconian</a> </div>= <div><br></div><div><div>Nadim Kobeissi<br>Symbolic Software = =E2=80=A2 https://symbolic.software<br> </div> <div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On 23 Jul 2026, at 11:48=E2=80=AFA= M, Nadim Kobeissi <[email protected]> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type"= content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">Hi = everyone,<div><br></div><div>Thanks Rich for these meeting = notes.</div><div><br></div><div>I=E2=80=99m a bit alarmed at the = following item in the notes:</div><div><br></div><div>"Poll: Should = chairs be more draconian in doing moderation? y/n/no-opinion = 65/2/7=E2=80=9D</div><div><br></div><div>The Cambridge Dictionary = defines =E2=80=9Cdraconian=E2=80=9D as =E2=80=9Cgoes further than what = is right or necessary=E2=80=9D.</div><div><br></div><div>Um=E2=80=A6 is = =E2=80=9Cdraconian=E2=80=9D really the term that was used by the poll? = And were those really the results of the poll? Who proposed a poll where = the chairs are being asked to =E2=80=9Cgo further than what is right or = necessary=E2=80=9D, and who=E2=80=99s supporting = this?</div><div><div><br></div><div>This is creepy to say the = least.</div><div> <meta charset=3D"UTF-8"><br>Nadim Kobeissi<br>Symbolic Software = =E2=80=A2 https://symbolic.software<br> </div> <div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On 23 Jul 2026, at 11:34=E2=80=AFA= M, Salz, Rich <[email protected]> = wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; = charset=3DWindows-1252"> <div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, = sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <a href=3D"https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-126-tls" = data-outlook-id=3D"83979608-a0d4-4813-91d2-1588745edda1">https://notes.iet= f.org/notes-ietf-126-tls</a></div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, = sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <br> </div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, = sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> There are two places where I missed the discussion =E2=80=9C(missed)=E2=80= =9D notation. Please help fix that.</div> <div style=3D"direction: ltr; font-family: Aptos, Arial, Helvetica, = sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <br> </div> </div> _______________________________________________<br>TLS mailing list -- = [email protected]<br>To unsubscribe send an email to = [email protected]<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>___________= ____________________________________<br>TLS mailing list -- = [email protected]<br>To unsubscribe send an email to = [email protected]<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_BF201E61-D42F-4289-86DD-752F1C529D38-- --===============6224979525839591468== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KVExTIG1haWxp bmcgbGlzdCAtLSB0bHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcKVG8gdW5zdWJzY3JpYmUgc2VuZCBhbiBlbWFpbCB0byB0 bHMtbGVhdmVAaWV0Zi5vcmcK --===============6224979525839591468==--