[Witarea] Re: [v6ops] How to make an elegant IPv4 outage
Philipp Tiesel <[email protected]> Wed, 10 Jun 2026 10:18:26 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.ietf.tsv-area,gmane.ietf.general,gmane.ietf.v6ops |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============7440517983447344486== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_4967A678-F882-41C3-B590-ACEA2396DB00" --Apple-Mail=_4967A678-F882-41C3-B590-ACEA2396DB00 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, What level of detail do you want=E2=80=A6?=20 I would say it is still much in flux: You get it working, but there are = gaps (especially in documentation) all over the place. =20 > On 10. Jun 2026, at 02:07, Franck Martin <[email protected]> = wrote: >=20 > while = https://github.com/franckhlmartin/ietf-draft-deploying-ipv6-data-center = mentions K8S it would be awesome if some of you could provide some more = information on K8S/Containers via a PR or an issue. >=20 > Would be super cool. >=20 > I think your experience is more up to date than mine. >=20 > Franck >=20 > From: "Nick Buraglio" <[email protected]> > To: "Franck Martin" <[email protected]> > Cc: "Xipengxiao" <[email protected]>, "Brian E = Carpenter" <[email protected]>, "S Moonesamy" = <[email protected]>, "witarea" <[email protected]>, "ietf" = <[email protected]>, "v6ops" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2026 3:33:16 AM > Subject: Re: [v6ops] Re: How to make an elegant IPv4 outage >=20 > This is basically the same experience we had. We=E2=80=99re more of = less using cilium for all networking.=20 >=20 > nb >=20 > On Sun, Jun 7, 2026 at 20:38 Franck Martin <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> I spent some time diving into various K8S deployments. K8S is great, = but you really really need to standardize your deployments. And because = K8S uses eBPF, and sometimes some network namespaces and sometimes not, = you can no longer trust /proc/net to tell you the reality. you need to = dive into the namespaces too... >>=20 >> so K8S NAT is often not stored in the routing or iptable, but in = eBPF, and it is very hard to get that information when you are on the = host itself... At least that was my experience. >>=20 >> having K8S with IPv6-only makes life much easier. >>=20 >> From: "Nick Buraglio" <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>> >> To: "Xipengxiao" <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Cc: "Franck Martin" <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>>, "Brian E Carpenter" = <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>, "S = Moonesamy" <[email protected] <mailto:sm%[email protected]>>, = "witarea" <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>, "ietf" = <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>, "v6ops" <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>> >> Sent: Sunday, June 7, 2026 8:32:24 AM >> Subject: Re: [v6ops] Re: How to make an elegant IPv4 outage >>=20 >> +1 >>=20 >> We have done k8s with IPv6-only in our data centers and once the = initial hurdles are past, it is significantly easier to work with.=20 >> Where the complications lie are in the random libraries inside of = random containers, and in some cases in the container repositories.=20 >> I=E2=80=99m curious to see what your experience is/was, and how it = differed from ours, if at all.=20 >>=20 >> nb >>=20 >> On Fri, Jun 5, 2026 at 10:21 Xipengxiao = <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> Hi Franck, >>>=20 >>> You are very welcome to take the lead on "Deploying IPv6 in the Data = Center/Enterprises". We look forward to your drafts. >>>=20 >>> XiPeng=20 >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Franck Martin <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>>=20 >>> Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2026 1:51 AM >>> To: Brian E Carpenter <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Cc: S Moonesamy <[email protected] = <mailto:sm%[email protected]>>; witarea <[email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]>>; ietf <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; = [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> Subject: [v6ops] Re: How to make an elegant IPv4 outage >>>=20 >>> Adding v6ops to the list of Cc >>>=20 >>> Brian, >>>=20 >>> Getting myself up to date with the v6ops. >>>=20 >>> I see there is a milestone to adopt by dec 2026 Deploying IPv6 in = the Data Center and Deploying IPv6 in the Enterprise. I have some = experience with this having done that at LinkedIn and been very close to = an IPv6-only deployment. I also was aware of what was happening at the = mothership at Microsoft.=20 >>>=20 >>> I don=E2=80=99t see any lead for this besides the WG chair. I would = be happy to contribute and may be to reach out to folks. I quickly = looked through the archives but did not see anything obvious on those = topics. >>>=20 >>> Franck >>>=20 >>> > On Jun 3, 2026, at 15:34, Brian E Carpenter = <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> = wrote: >>> >=20 >>> > Franck, >>> >=20 >>> > You definitely need to keep [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> = aware of this. >>> >=20 >>> > I assume you are aware of = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-only/ and other = work in v6ops related to IPv6-only and IPv6-mostly. >>> >=20 >>> > Regards/Ng=C4=81 mihi >>> > Brian Carpenter >>> >=20 >>> > On 04-Jun-26 09:29, Franck Martin wrote: >>> >> Moving to Witarea, but keeping ietf in the loop for the moment. >>> >> Hi Surya, >>> >> Many thanks for those great points. >>> >>> On Jun 3, 2026, at 13:00, S Moonesamy <[email protected] = <mailto:sm%[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>>=20 >>> >>> Hi Franck, >>> >>>=20 >>> >>> [Cc to witarea@] >>> >>>=20 >>> >>> At 11:32 AM 03-06-2026, Franck Martin wrote: >>> >>>> Today I submitted this Internet Draft (I-D) to the IETF=20 >>> >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-retry-over-ipv6/ >>> >>>>=20 >>> >>>> I have been building this site: pacific.ipv6forum.com = <http://pacific.ipv6forum.com/> and I have been wondering, how could I = do an IPv4 outage on this site on 6/6? >>> >>>>=20 >>> >>>> I have also seen that Czechoslovakia has mandated the end of = IPv4 on government sites on 6/6/2032, 6 years from now. >>> >>>>=20 >>> >>>> I also recall (from recent experience) that it is relatively = easy to reach >90% of IPv6 connections to an internal network (think = datacenter), but the remaining last % are difficult to identify (or = discard) because services may misbehave and prefer IPv4 from time to = time: You don't know if they can't really do IPv4 or if they did not = bother to do IPv6. >>> >>>>=20 >>> >>>> In an enterprise environment, micro-services are made = redundant, there are multiple IPs and have fallback mechanisms when they = encounter a 5xx error on one endpoint. >>> >>>>=20 >>> >>>> So, I started to work on this Internet Draft. It is ready for = the first round of public comments. I suspect, if successful, it will = take 1 or 2 years to make it a standard. Then an extra 1 or 2 years, = before it is implemented on enough clients (and browsers), we will be = just in time for doing enough IPv4 outages on 6/6 to meet the 6/6/2032 = deadline. >>> >>>=20 >>> >>> There is a recent thread about IPv6 at = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/BxSOgbF34xbBcijtxf85Pfnb5tc/ = I don't remember seeing anything resulting from that discussion. Having = a draft is, relatively, better than the usual email discussion. The = draft falls under the WIT Area and v6ops (which is in another IETF = Area). >>> >> I quickly read the thread, and also asked for a summary. I agree = with many points like : some mobiles are IPv6-only (T-Mobile, = Reliance,=E2=80=A6), some networks are IPv6-only on the management side = (Comcast),.. StarLink is moving the needle A LOT in small countries, see = countries on https://pacific.ipv6forum.com = <https://pacific.ipv6forum.com/> <https://pacific.ipv6forum.com = <https://pacific.ipv6forum.com/>>.. but yes the frontier is Entreprise = adoption. I have some experience here that I=E2=80=99m trying to share. >>> >>>=20 >>> >>> Section 1.1 of the draft states that "Governments are also = publishing fixed IPv4 end dates" and lists one example [1]. Are there = any other governments which have a fixed end date? >>> >> I am not aware of other governments that have published an = equally=20 >>> >> specific =E2=80=9CIPv4 service ends on <date>=E2=80=9D policy for = their public=20 >>> >> services. Several others publish IPv6 transition *milestones* = rather=20 >>> >> than a fixed IPv4 shutdown date =E2=80=94 for example, US OMB = M-21-07 (80% of=20 >>> >> federal IP-enabled assets in IPv6-only environments by FY 2025, = with=20 >>> >> strategic intent to phase out IPv4):=20 >>> >> https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/M-21-07.pdf >>> >> The Netherlands and others have long-standing IPv6 = =E2=80=9Cuse-or-explain=E2=80=9D or adoption targets, but not, to my = knowledge, a single published IPv4 end date comparable to the Czech = case. >>> >> There was also a memo from the State of Washington going in the = same=20 >>> >> direction=E2=80=A6 I used to track all those=E2=80=A6 looks like = I need to do that again. >>> >> And I agree that those memos come and go=E2=80=A6 Why? Because it = is not trivial, we (IETF?) ought to make it easier. >>> >>>=20 >>> >>> Section 3 of the draft states that "Many operators plan to = remove or disable IPv4 while retaining IPv6 service." Are those plans = available on the operators' websites? >>> >> I tend to abuse the word =E2=80=9CMany=E2=80=9D, you caught me! I = make a note to change it to =E2=80=9CSome" >>> >> That being said: >>> >> * Meta is IPv6-only in their data centers:=20 >>> >> = https://engineering.fb.com/2017/01/17/production-engineering/legacy-s >>> >> upport-on-ipv6-only-infra/=20 >>> >> = <https://engineering.fb.com/2017/01/17/production-engineering/legacy- >>> >> support-on-ipv6-only-infra/> >>> >> * Google Cloud has guidance for IPv6-only:=20 >>> >> = https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/networking/connect-ipv6-only-w >>> >> orkloads-to-ipv4-with-dns64-and-nat64=20 >>> >> = <https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/networking/connect-ipv6-only- >>> >> workloads-to-ipv4-with-dns64-and-nat64> >>> >> * All the could providers are moving to support IPv6 (because = for=20 >>> >> instance K8S bring undue complexity when you use NAT, also with = the=20 >>> >> explosion of AI agents, this will not be sustainable, I=E2=80=99m = not worry,=20 >>> >> they can afford to buy large chunks of IPv4 - side note: I spoke=20= >>> >> recently with a banker on why IPv4 is not on the balance sheet of=20= >>> >> companies?) >>> >> * Cisco has an IPv6-only building:=20 >>> >> https://blogs.cisco.com/networking/an-ipv6-campus-of-the-future=20= >>> >> <https://blogs.cisco.com/networking/an-ipv6-campus-of-the-future> >>> >> * Orange is considering IPv6-only:=20 >>> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DahlY1vwM8qE=20 >>> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DahlY1vwM8qE> >>> >> * Microsoft has IPv6-only deployments (I know that in Azure this = is=20 >>> >> way more complicated):=20 >>> >> https://labs.ripe.net/author/mirjam/ipv6-only-at-microsoft/=20 >>> >> <https://labs.ripe.net/author/mirjam/ipv6-only-at-microsoft/> >>> >> * LinkedIn is moving to Dual Stack and IPv6-only in their = Datacenters. I may point you to the links in this post: = https://www.patreon.com/posts/ipv6-in-lessons-159595711 where I share my = experience with IPv6. >>> >> On this last point, I want to say my motivation is more on how to = make life easier for internal deployments than external deployments. As = such I found out that making a software outage is easier than an = infrastructure outage, and easier and faster to rollback. =E2=80=9CYou = can=E2=80=99t fix what you don=E2=80=99t measure=E2=80=9D, if you can = differentiate an IPv4 outage from any other outage, then you don=E2=80=99t= know what to fix. >>> >> I=E2=80=99m not expecting the web browsers to implement anything = fast, but I think we can have =E2=80=9Cfaster=E2=80=9D implementation in = open source software like gRPC and Rest.Li to make life easier in = enterprises, therefore impacting other software in those enterprises, = which will lead to make it easier on the public Internet... >>> >> So thanks for all those valid points, I=E2=80=99ll figure out how = to better answer them in version -01. >>> >> I tried to address the same with email, a while back. See those = expired ID: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-ipv6-to-ipv4-fallback/ = <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-ipv6-to-ipv4-fallback/= >, = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-target-host-selection-i= pv4-ipv6/ = <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-target-host-selection-= ipv4-ipv6/>. I hope this ID has a bit more chances. >>> >> Franck >>> >> PS: if any has more references of mandate or wannabe mandates, = please let me know. >>> >>>=20 >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> S. Moonesamy >>> >>>=20 >>> >>> 1. The IPv6 adoption rate for a social network in that country = is 35.2%. >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> v6ops mailing list -- [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> v6ops mailing list -- [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] = <mailto:[email protected]> >=20 > _______________________________________________ > v6ops mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] --Apple-Mail=_4967A678-F882-41C3-B590-ACEA2396DB00 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html aria-label=3D"message body"><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" = content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body = style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = line-break: after-white-space;">Hi,<div><br></div><div>What level of = detail do you want=E2=80=A6? </div><div>I would say it is still = much in flux: You get it working, but there are gaps (especially in = documentation) all over the = place.</div><div> </div><div><div><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><div>On 10. Jun 2026, at 02:07, Franck Martin = <[email protected]> wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div><div style=3D"font-family: = arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;">while = https://github.com/franckhlmartin/ietf-draft-deploying-ipv6-data-center = mentions K8S it would be awesome if some of you could provide some more = information on K8S/Containers via a PR or an issue.<br><br>Would be = super cool.<br><br>I think your experience is more up to date than = mine.<br><br>Franck<br><br><hr id=3D"zwchr" data-marker=3D""><div = data-marker=3D""><b>From: </b>"Nick Buraglio" = <[email protected]><br><b>To: </b>"Franck Martin" = <[email protected]><br><b>Cc: </b>"Xipengxiao" = <[email protected]>, "Brian E Carpenter" = <[email protected]>, "S Moonesamy" = <[email protected]>, "witarea" <[email protected]>, "ietf" = <[email protected]>, "v6ops" <[email protected]><br><b>Sent: = </b>Tuesday, June 9, 2026 3:33:16 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [v6ops] Re: = How to make an elegant IPv4 outage<br></div><br><div data-marker=3D""><div= dir=3D"auto">This is basically the same experience we had. We=E2=80=99re = more of less using cilium for all networking. </div><div = dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">nb</div><div><br><div = class=3D"gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir=3D"ltr" = class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 7, 2026 at 20:38 Franck Martin <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow = noopener noreferrer">[email protected]</a>> = wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px = 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb( 204 , 204 , 204 = );padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, = sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , = 'helvetica' , sans-serif">I spent some time diving into various K8S = deployments. K8S is great, but you really really need to standardize = your deployments. And because K8S uses eBPF, and sometimes some network = namespaces and sometimes not, you can no longer trust /proc/net to tell = you the reality. you need to dive into the namespaces too...</div><div = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif"><br></div><div = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif">so K8S NAT is = often not stored in the routing or iptable, but in eBPF, and it is very = hard to get that information when you are on the host itself... At least = that was my experience.</div><div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , = 'helvetica' , sans-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , = 'helvetica' , sans-serif">having K8S with IPv6-only makes life much = easier.</div><div style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , = sans-serif"><br></div><hr id=3D"m_-8132224587898458546zwchr" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif"><div = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif"><b = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif">From: </b>"Nick = Buraglio" <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" target=3D"_blank"= rel=3D"nofollow noopener = noreferrer">[email protected]</a>><br><b = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif">To: = </b>"Xipengxiao" <xipengxiao=3D<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"font-family:'arial' = , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener = noreferrer">[email protected]</a>><br><b = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif">Cc: </b>"Franck = Martin" <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" target=3D"_blank"= rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer">[email protected]</a>>, = "Brian E Carpenter" <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" target=3D"_blank"= rel=3D"nofollow noopener = noreferrer">[email protected]</a>>, "S Moonesamy" <<a = href=3D"mailto:sm%[email protected]" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , = 'helvetica' , sans-serif" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener = noreferrer">[email protected]</a>>, "witarea" <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , = 'helvetica' , sans-serif" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener = noreferrer">[email protected]</a>>, "ietf" <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' = , sans-serif" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener = noreferrer">[email protected]</a>>, "v6ops" <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , = 'helvetica' , sans-serif" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow noopener = noreferrer">[email protected]</a>><br><b style=3D"font-family:'arial' , = 'helvetica' , sans-serif">Sent: </b>Sunday, June 7, 2026 8:32:24 = AM<br><b style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , = sans-serif">Subject: </b>Re: [v6ops] Re: How to make an elegant IPv4 = outage<br></div></div></div><div><div style=3D"font-family: arial, = helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"><div style=3D"font-family:'arial'= , 'helvetica' , sans-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-family:'arial' = , 'helvetica' , sans-serif"><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:'arial'= , 'helvetica' , sans-serif">+1</div><div dir=3D"auto" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif"><br></div><div = dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif">We = have done k8s with IPv6-only in our data centers and once the initial = hurdles are past, it is significantly easier to work = with. </div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , = 'helvetica' , sans-serif">Where the complications lie are in the random = libraries inside of random containers, and in some cases in the = container repositories. </div><div dir=3D"auto" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif">I=E2=80=99m = curious to see what your experience is/was, and how it differed from = ours, if at all. </div><div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-family:'arial'= , 'helvetica' , sans-serif"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif">nb</div><div = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif"><br><div = class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , = sans-serif"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif">On Fri, Jun 5, = 2026 at 10:21 Xipengxiao <xipengxiao=3D<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noopener = noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , = 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> = wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px = 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb( 204 , 204 , 204 = );padding-left:1ex;font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif">Hi = Franck,<br> <br> You are very welcome to take the lead on "Deploying IPv6 in the Data = Center/Enterprises". We look forward to your drafts.<br> <br> XiPeng <br> <br> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Franck Martin <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> <br> Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2026 1:51 AM<br> To: Brian E Carpenter <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>><br> Cc: S Moonesamy <<a href=3D"mailto:sm%[email protected]" = rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>; witarea <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer = nofollow noopener noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' = , sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>; ietf <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer = nofollow noopener noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' = , sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>; <a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer = nofollow noopener noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' = , sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> Subject: [v6ops] Re: How to make an elegant IPv4 outage<br> <br> Adding v6ops to the list of Cc<br> <br> Brian,<br> <br> Getting myself up to date with the v6ops.<br> <br> I see there is a milestone to adopt by dec 2026 Deploying IPv6 in the = Data Center and Deploying IPv6 in the Enterprise. I have some experience = with this having done that at LinkedIn and been very close to an = IPv6-only deployment. I also was aware of what was happening at the = mothership at Microsoft. <br> <br> I don=E2=80=99t see any lead for this besides the WG chair. I would be = happy to contribute and may be to reach out to folks. I quickly looked = through the archives but did not see anything obvious on those = topics.<br> <br> Franck<br> <br> > On Jun 3, 2026, at 15:34, Brian E Carpenter <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noopener = noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , = 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> > <br> > Franck,<br> > <br> > You definitely need to keep <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a> aware of this.<br> > <br> > I assume you are aware of <a = href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-only/" = rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-palet-v6ops-ipv6-= only/</a> and other work in v6ops related to IPv6-only and = IPv6-mostly.<br> > <br> > Regards/Ng=C4=81 mihi<br> > Brian Carpenter<br> > <br> > On 04-Jun-26 09:29, Franck Martin wrote:<br> >> Moving to Witarea, but keeping ietf in the loop for the = moment.<br> >> Hi Surya,<br> >> Many thanks for those great points.<br> >>> On Jun 3, 2026, at 13:00, S Moonesamy <<a = href=3D"mailto:sm%[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow noopener = noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , = 'helvetica' , sans-serif" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>> = wrote:<br> >>> <br> >>> Hi Franck,<br> >>> <br> >>> [Cc to witarea@]<br> >>> <br> >>> At 11:32 AM 03-06-2026, Franck Martin wrote:<br> >>>> Today I submitted this Internet Draft (I-D) to the IETF = <br> >>>> <a = href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-retry-over-ipv6/" = rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-retry-over= -ipv6/</a><br> >>>> <br> >>>> I have been building this site: <a = href=3D"http://pacific.ipv6forum.com/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow = noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">pacific.ipv6forum.com</a> and I have been wondering, = how could I do an IPv4 outage on this site on 6/6?<br> >>>> <br> >>>> I have also seen that Czechoslovakia has mandated the = end of IPv4 on government sites on 6/6/2032, 6 years from now.<br> >>>> <br> >>>> I also recall (from recent experience) that it is = relatively easy to reach >90% of IPv6 connections to an internal = network (think datacenter), but the remaining last % are difficult to = identify (or discard) because services may misbehave and prefer IPv4 = from time to time: You don't know if they can't really do IPv4 or if = they did not bother to do IPv6.<br> >>>> <br> >>>> In an enterprise environment, micro-services are made = redundant, there are multiple IPs and have fallback mechanisms when they = encounter a 5xx error on one endpoint.<br> >>>> <br> >>>> So, I started to work on this Internet Draft. It is = ready for the first round of public comments. I suspect, if successful, = it will take 1 or 2 years to make it a standard. Then an extra 1 or 2 = years, before it is implemented on enough clients (and browsers), we = will be just in time for doing enough IPv4 outages on 6/6 to meet the = 6/6/2032 deadline.<br> >>> <br> >>> There is a recent thread about IPv6 at <a = href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/BxSOgbF34xbBcijtxf85Pfn= b5tc/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ipv6/BxSOgbF34xbBc= ijtxf85Pfnb5tc/</a> I don't remember seeing anything resulting from that = discussion. Having a draft is, relatively, better than the usual = email discussion. The draft falls under the WIT Area and v6ops = (which is in another IETF Area).<br> >> I quickly read the thread, and also asked for a summary. I = agree with many points like : some mobiles are IPv6-only (T-Mobile, = Reliance,=E2=80=A6), some networks are IPv6-only on the management side = (Comcast),.. StarLink is moving the needle A LOT in small countries, see = countries on <a href=3D"https://pacific.ipv6forum.com/" rel=3D"noreferrer = nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://pacific.ipv6forum.com</a> <<a = href=3D"https://pacific.ipv6forum.com/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow = noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://pacific.ipv6forum.com</a>>.. but yes the = frontier is Entreprise adoption. I have some experience here that I=E2=80=99= m trying to share.<br> >>> <br> >>> Section 1.1 of the draft states that "Governments are also = publishing fixed IPv4 end dates" and lists one example [1]. Are = there any other governments which have a fixed end date?<br> >> I am not aware of other governments that have published an = equally <br> >> specific =E2=80=9CIPv4 service ends on <date>=E2=80=9D = policy for their public <br> >> services. Several others publish IPv6 transition *milestones* = rather <br> >> than a fixed IPv4 shutdown date =E2=80=94 for example, US OMB = M-21-07 (80% of <br> >> federal IP-enabled assets in IPv6-only environments by FY 2025, = with <br> >> strategic intent to phase out IPv4): <br> >> <a = href=3D"https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/M-21-07.pdf"= rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/M-= 21-07.pdf</a><br> >> The Netherlands and others have long-standing IPv6 = =E2=80=9Cuse-or-explain=E2=80=9D or adoption targets, but not, to my = knowledge, a single published IPv4 end date comparable to the Czech = case.<br> >> There was also a memo from the State of Washington going in the = same <br> >> direction=E2=80=A6 I used to track all those=E2=80=A6 looks = like I need to do that again.<br> >> And I agree that those memos come and go=E2=80=A6 Why? Because = it is not trivial, we (IETF?) ought to make it easier.<br> >>> <br> >>> Section 3 of the draft states that "Many operators plan to = remove or disable IPv4 while retaining IPv6 service." Are those = plans available on the operators' websites?<br> >> I tend to abuse the word =E2=80=9CMany=E2=80=9D, you caught me! = I make a note to change it to =E2=80=9CSome"<br> >> That being said:<br> >> * Meta is IPv6-only in their data centers: <br> >> <a = href=3D"https://engineering.fb.com/2017/01/17/production-engineering/legac= y-s" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://engineering.fb.com/2017/01/17/production-enginee= ring/legacy-s</a><br> >> upport-on-ipv6-only-infra/ <br> >> <<a = href=3D"https://engineering.fb.com/2017/01/17/production-engineering/legac= y-" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://engineering.fb.com/2017/01/17/production-enginee= ring/legacy-</a><br> >> support-on-ipv6-only-infra/><br> >> * Google Cloud has guidance for IPv6-only: <br> >> <a = href=3D"https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/networking/connect-ipv6-onl= y-w" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/networking/connec= t-ipv6-only-w</a><br> >> orkloads-to-ipv4-with-dns64-and-nat64 <br> >> <<a = href=3D"https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/networking/connect-ipv6-onl= y-" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/networking/connec= t-ipv6-only-</a><br> >> workloads-to-ipv4-with-dns64-and-nat64><br> >> * All the could providers are moving to support IPv6 = (because for <br> >> instance K8S bring undue complexity when you use NAT, also with = the <br> >> explosion of AI agents, this will not be sustainable, I=E2=80=99m= not worry, <br> >> they can afford to buy large chunks of IPv4 - side note: I = spoke <br> >> recently with a banker on why IPv4 is not on the balance sheet = of <br> >> companies?)<br> >> * Cisco has an IPv6-only building: <br> >> <a = href=3D"https://blogs.cisco.com/networking/an-ipv6-campus-of-the-future" = rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://blogs.cisco.com/networking/an-ipv6-campus-of-the= -future</a> <br> >> <<a = href=3D"https://blogs.cisco.com/networking/an-ipv6-campus-of-the-future" = rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://blogs.cisco.com/networking/an-ipv6-campus-of-the= -future</a>><br> >> * Orange is considering IPv6-only: <br> >> <a href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DahlY1vwM8qE" = rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DahlY1vwM8qE</a> <br> >> <<a href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DahlY1vwM8qE" = rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DahlY1vwM8qE</a>><br= > >> * Microsoft has IPv6-only deployments (I know that in = Azure this is <br> >> way more complicated): <br> >> <a = href=3D"https://labs.ripe.net/author/mirjam/ipv6-only-at-microsoft/" = rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://labs.ripe.net/author/mirjam/ipv6-only-at-microso= ft/</a> <br> >> <<a = href=3D"https://labs.ripe.net/author/mirjam/ipv6-only-at-microsoft/" = rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://labs.ripe.net/author/mirjam/ipv6-only-at-microso= ft/</a>><br> >> * LinkedIn is moving to Dual Stack and IPv6-only in their = Datacenters. I may point you to the links in this post: <a = href=3D"https://www.patreon.com/posts/ipv6-in-lessons-159595711" = rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener = noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://www.patreon.com/posts/ipv6-in-lessons-159595711<= /a> where I share my experience with IPv6.<br> >> On this last point, I want to say my motivation is more on how = to make life easier for internal deployments than external deployments. = As such I found out that making a software outage is easier than an = infrastructure outage, and easier and faster to rollback. =E2=80=9CYou = can=E2=80=99t fix what you don=E2=80=99t measure=E2=80=9D, if you can = differentiate an IPv4 outage from any other outage, then you don=E2=80=99t= know what to fix.<br> >> I=E2=80=99m not expecting the web browsers to implement = anything fast, but I think we can have =E2=80=9Cfaster=E2=80=9D = implementation in open source software like gRPC and Rest.Li to make = life easier in enterprises, therefore impacting other software in those = enterprises, which will lead to make it easier on the public = Internet...<br> >> So thanks for all those valid points, I=E2=80=99ll figure out = how to better answer them in version -01.<br> >> I tried to address the same with email, a while back. See those = expired ID: <a = href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-ipv6-to-ipv4-fa= llback/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow = noopener noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , = sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-ipv6-= to-ipv4-fallback/</a> <<a = href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-ipv6-to-ipv4-fa= llback/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow = noopener noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , = sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-ipv6-= to-ipv4-fallback/</a>>, <a = href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-target-host-sel= ection-ipv4-ipv6/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer = nofollow noopener noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' = , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-targe= t-host-selection-ipv4-ipv6/</a> <<a = href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-target-host-sel= ection-ipv4-ipv6/" rel=3D"noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer = nofollow noopener noreferrer" style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' = , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-martin-smtp-targe= t-host-selection-ipv4-ipv6/</a>>. I hope this ID has a bit more = chances.<br> >> Franck<br> >> PS: if any has more references of mandate or wannabe mandates, = please let me know.<br> >>> <br> >>> Regards,<br> >>> S. Moonesamy<br> >>> <br> >>> 1. The IPv6 adoption rate for a social network in that = country is 35.2%.<br> <br> _______________________________________________<br> v6ops mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow = noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> _______________________________________________<br> v6ops mailing list -- <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" rel=3D"nofollow = noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" = rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer nofollow noopener noreferrer" = style=3D"font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif" = target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a><br> = </blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><br></= div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>v6ops = mailing list -- [email protected]<br>To unsubscribe send an email to = [email protected]<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_4967A678-F882-41C3-B590-ACEA2396DB00-- --===============7440517983447344486== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline LS0gCldpdGFyZWEgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IC0tIHdpdGFyZWFAaWV0Zi5vcmcKVG8gdW5zdWJzY3Jp YmUgc2VuZCBhbiBlbWFpbCB0byB3aXRhcmVhLWxlYXZlQGlldGYub3JnCg== --===============7440517983447344486==--