Re: [Slightly OT] Philosophy (was Re: Replacement for Abiword: LyX? Openoffice?)

On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 06:26:20PM -0500, Ron Johnson wrote:
> When one is sitting in front of the computer, one is not running,
> jumping, reading books, etc.

Why must they be mutually exclusive?  Why can't they all reinforce each
other?  OK, let's say you're interested in playing badminton (as I am) and
you want to find out how to fix your stance and getting yourself back in
position after a shot so that you don't always find yourself wrecking your
knees to bound back and forth chasing the shuttle.  Now, you could use the
computer to look up articles on it.  Or you could look up books on badminton
in general, go to the library (walking), get a book, and read about it.

This is the kind of computer use that I try to model for my children.  
Computers don't have to be time-sucking, soul-sucking entertainment 
machines.

> For example, if I'd had a computer when I was young, there's no
> way that I'd have read so many books, and, thus, even though my
> joystick skills would be more highly developed, my intellect and
> "world exposure" would be much diminished.

Ah, and here we get to the heart of the matter: "computer as video games
console".  This is quite a different thing from the vision I have for Debian
Jr.  All I ever wanted for my children was for my choice of Linux for our
home system to be one they didn't hate me for making because they found it
frustrating, mystifying, and besides, it didn't have anything on it they
were interested in.  I take it as a given that any child with access to a
computer in their home is going to want to play *some* video games on it. 
But that's not the end of the story.  A wise guide to the child computer
user will will consider that the child's use of the technology needs to be
in balance with the other things in life.  Used properly, computers
reinforce and enrich a child's total life experience.  Used lazily and
without regard for a child's development, computers can be little more than
glorified "boob tubes".

> Ok, here's another provocative question: why is it needed?  Anyone
> over 40 grew up without computers, and there are lots of 40+ geeks.
> (Those of us who are 40+ can attest to this.)

Did I say it is needed?  I started Debian Jr. from these assumptions:

	I have a computer in my home.
	I am a Debian user.
	I have children.

All of these things are choices I have already made.  None of them are 
necessary things.

And then I asked this question:

	Given that all of these things are true, what would make
	Debian something my children would enjoy, and even prefer
	to the alternatives?

The answer is, of course, Debian Jr.  It is not a necessary thing.  It is a 
fun thing, born out of a desire to take what I have and enjoy already, and 
make it into something I can share with my whole family, my friends, my 
friends' families, and so on.

> Yes, computers are better than the TV, but the kids are going to be
> in front of them so often (young people going into the military are
> much heavier, and less in shape than they used to be) for the rest
> of their lives.  So, pushing it back for a couple of years can't
> hurt them.

I disagree.  Let me try to get to the heart of the matter.  Do you
experience computers as devices which, at times, dominate your life?  If so,
then I understand you might be afraid that your children might experience
this too.  However, the solution is not to "push it back a couple of years". 
Here's a suggestion.  Take a "computer sabbatical," not touching the
computer for the entire week, reading more books, going out for walks during
that time.  Let your children know you are taking it, and let them know why. 
Share and enjoy the extra time you now have with your kids.  Then return to
using the computer with the new perspective gained from the sabbatical. 
Repeat this exercise as often as necessary.  Work towards a more moderate
use of computers in your own life, and your kids will learn how to pattern
their own computer use after yours.  You can't hide the potentially harmful
effects of computer use from your children by simply keeping them away from
computers.  They're too smart for that.  They'll see right through you and
go right out as soon as they are able to strike off on their own and fall
directly into the very thing you were trying to protect them from.  And
they'll do this, to your chagrin, modelling behaviour that they learned from
watching you.  Instead, you need to start teaching them (and I think the
earlier the better) appropriate use of the computer as a device meant to
serve them and not a device that dominates their lives.

Have I arrived at that point yet?  No way.  Am I aware of the problem and 
working on it?  Certainly.  Computers may not be a necessary thing in our 
lives, but they are in such widespread use in the world now, becoming a part 
of the fabric of our society, that we had better learn how to live with them 
ourselves, and then teach by example to our kids.

Debian Jr. is a part of the solution, not a part of the problem.

> > If it were a matter of deciding whether to *push* computers on children at 
> > an early age or not, I would see your point.  But they are such a part of 
> 
> Which lots of parents are doing.

Can I assume, for the moment, that the majority of people on this list are 
*not* in this group?

> I won't be able to shield them for long, whether I want to or not....

I would contend that this is not a bad thing.  Introduce computers to them 
when they are ready and eager to explore.

> When they turn 6-7, it will be interesting to teach them Python
> if they are interested.

I found it very hard to keep the attention of my boy at around that age long
enough for him to benefit.  He is nine now, and I'm about ready to try 
again.

> But, as I said before, when they're in front of the computer, they
> aren't doing "the other things".

Are there so few hours in the day that they can't enjoy 30-60 minutes with
the computer?  In our homeschooling household, that is the typical computer
turn length.  While we don't set specific agendas for their turns, we do
encourage them to spend a portion of their turns exploring things they're
interested in learning more about, so the turn just doesn't end up being all
games by default.  The rest of their waking hours they are perfectly
ordinary, healthy, boisterous kids, with a love for reading, music, rowdy
play, physical and intellectual activities of all sorts.

Ben
--
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