Re: Pentoo-installer

wireless posted on Fri, 01 Nov 2013 08:12:09 -0400 as excerpted:

> On 11/01/13 01:42, Duncan wrote:
>=20
>> [Wireless posted...]
>>=20
>>> The only problem I see [with the pentoo installer] is that it
>>> does not offer ZFS in the menu during installation.
>>
>> AFAIK once you start shipping binaries (as an installer with that
>> choice would be doing) you end up in a legal gray area due to
>> Sun-now-Oracle's refusal to GPL the ZFS code.  Some would therefore
>> consider that lack a feature, not a bug.[3] =3D:^)
>=20
> This would only be the initial install. Once you issue "emerge --sync"
> does it not pull down sources?

But if those sources aren't GPL compatible (and they aren't), at least=20
with the kernel module zfs, there's still a potential GPL violation if a=20
binary is distributed.  A /user/ is free to do whatever they want to=20
their own machine, including building/linking/running GPL and GPL=20
incompatible sources, but once they distribute that binary, they're no=20
longer just a user and run afoul of the gpl due to that binary=20
distribution, regardless of whether sources are available for both the GP=
L=20
side and the other side, or not.

That in general gentoo only distributes build-scripts which pull down=20
sources which are then built, NOT executable binaries, generally keeps=20
gentoo out of legal hot water in a number of areas including both gpl=20
binary-distribution violations and potential patent issues that the=20
binary distros have to deal with.  But distributing an installer with the=
=20
binaries is an exception to the general gentoo rule, since it /does/=20
involve distributing executable binaries, and as such, there are far more=
=20
legal restrictions, both in terms of GPLed binaries, and for anything=20
(like the various media codecs, tho fortunately they're not normally on a=
=20
simple installer, but they COULD be in package disc images!) a patent is=20
known to cover.

Of course to the best of my knowledge, pentoo is independent of gentoo=20
and thus we wouldn't be directly affected.  Were it to ship zfs in the=20
installer, the potential gpl violation wouldn't be our legal problem, but=
=20
theirs.  Still, it's nothing we should be encouraging.

Of course there's also the zfs-fuse project, userspace zfs, that is AFAIK=
=20
entirely compatible with the kernel's gpl due to the long accepted=20
userspace waiver (and I know of no other userspace gpl style problems it=20
has, AFAIK it's legal worry free, to the extent /any/ software is at=20
least, in this day of software patents).  But AFAIK it's significantly=20
slower and has other limitations related to the fact that it runs in=20
userspace.

The more political side is that thru its failure to GPL that code despite=
=20
repeated requests, Sun/Oracle has made it *VERY* clear they have no=20
interest in supporting fully legal Linux use.  They'd rather it remain a=20
legal gray area, thus encouraging at least the corporate types with lots=20
of money to lose if there's a battle and it goes wrong, to either stay=20
away from zfs on Linux, or preferably, to choose Solaris instead.  And=20
there could /well/ be such a battle, which could become VERY costly for=20
those involved regardless of which side "wins".  That's one lesson the=20
formerly Linux friendly Caldera, later evolved into the SCO Group, made=20
*VERY* clear.

That's why zfs remains such a "third rail" untouchable to many in the=20
community.  Individual users who don't have much to lose and could switch=
=20
to something other than zfs reasonably quickly if they had to, can do the=
=20
build-your-own that the GPL freely allows as long as you don't=20
distribute, and that the zfs license either allows or that Oracle=20
currently tolerates (I'm not sure which) and be fine.  But a large=20
company would be insane to touch zfs on Linux, as would any binary-
distributing entity large enough to get on the legal radar, and that's=20
apparently /exactly/ how Oracle wants to keep things, so here we are...

--=20
Duncan - List replies preferred.   No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master."  Richard Stallman