Re: [OM Cooker] Are we still doing this moderation? Really?

=0A=0A>________________________________=0A> From: devnet <[email protected]>=
=0A>To: David Walser <[email protected]> =0A>Cc: Per =D8yvind Karlsen <=
[email protected]>; [email protected] =0A>Sent: Thursday, August 1, 2013=
 9:27 AM=0A>Subject: Re: [Cooker] [OM Cooker] Are we still doing this moder=
ation? Really?=0A> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 6:57 AM, =
David Walser <[email protected]> wrote:=0A>=0A>On 07/31/2013 11:04 PM, =
devnet wrote:=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>No, not exactly. =A0You're wasting=
 man power on focusing on things behind=0A>>>you instead of in front of you=
. =A0Moderated on a list means that your=0A>>>posts still make it there unl=
ess your being an incredible douche bag=0A>>>toward people. =A0Leave your e=
go at the door and all your barriers will drop.=0A>>>=0A>>>Keep up the douc=
hebaggery and you make that artificial barrier become an=0A>>>actual one.=
=0A>>>=0A>>Ah, but you're assuming that the people doing the moderation mak=
e this distinction perfectly. =A0Unfortunately, humans aren't perfect.=0A>=
=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Who cares if they don't? =A0Keep on focusing on the distrib=
ution and move forward. =A0Here you are worrying about what other people th=
ink of your posts and whether or not they're being fair. =A0Who cares? =A0K=
eep posting RELEVANT stuff that builds up instead of tears down. =A0People =
will take notice if you focus on the distribution. =A0 If your relevant stu=
ff is filtered, file a formal request...be tactful about it. =A0Work the sy=
stem that is in place...don't piss and moan about how you don't like the sy=
stem and how it limits you.=A0=0A=0A=0AWho cares, seriously!?=A0 So you don=
't think restricting the ability of developers to communicate could ever be=
 a problem?=A0 You don't think someone unfairly restricting one person's co=
mmunication because they don't like them or don't agree with them is OK, an=
d is a healthy way to run an open-source project?=A0 And who else are you g=
oing to file a "formal request" with to change this?=A0 Why do you expect t=
hat people contribute to an open source project in their own free time and =
of their own free will would want to put up with such BS?=A0 How can you ju=
st "focus on the distribution" if your ability to participate is so severel=
y and arbitrarily curtailed?=A0 The only thing that's tearing anything down=
 right now is these arbitrary restrictions.=0A=0A=0A>>It looks like to me y=
ou have NO barriers if you can just focus on one=0A>>>thing that everyone s=
hould be focusing on...the distribution. =A0What a=0A>>>novel concept eh? =
=A0Focusing on the distribution instead of pissing and=0A>>>moaning about a=
ll the injustices that were heaped upon you or=0A>>>others...or pissing and=
 moaning about a barrier that doesn't exist as=0A>>>long as you focus on th=
e distribution instead of pissing and moaning.=0A>>>=0A>>=0AAgain, you're m=
issing the point. =A0The list moderation is part of it, as communication is=
 a crucial component of effectively collaborating on this type of work. =A0=
Then there's also the commit access business, where ideally the code for on=
e piece of software lives in one place, and everyone is able to contribute =
to and benefit from it easily. =A0That not being the case also establishes =
artificial barriers that make it much harder to focus on the distribution a=
nd just work, which is what you want.=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Dude...I=
 somehow was a developer for a distribution of Linux for THREE YEARS withou=
t commit access. =A0Did it slow me down? =A0Yep. =A0Did it matter to me? =
=A0Nope. =A0I just sent my commits to someone who had access. =A0This barri=
er will fall to the wayside should you stop looking behind and start focusi=
ng on the forward. =A0Drop the ego at the door and let it go.=0A=0A=0AAnd I=
 participated in Cooker for 9 years without any kind of commit access, but =
I also wasn't an extraordinarily active developer.=A0 I'm not saying it doe=
sn't work for anybody, I'm just saying it is a big problem for a major cont=
ributor, especially one who works on more than packages, but also self-host=
ed code like the installer and related tools.=0A=0A=0A>>Just my 2 cents...b=
ut I'm a project manager that gets results and=0A>>>motivates people to do =
jobs for some of the largest companies in the=0A>>>world...what do I know?=
=0A>>>=0A>>=0AI could be totally off base, but possibly as much as some of =
the people I've come into contact with at work recently, who think that yel=
ling and berating and insulting and bullying people is the best way to get =
them to do what you want them to do. =A0Just because they work for a large =
organization doesn't make them perfect. =A0BTW, when injustices really are =
committed against people, and then you criticize them for "pissing and moan=
ing" about it, that's also bullying.=0A>>=0A>=0A>Never said I was perfect. =
=A0I just gave a one liner about who I was because NO ONE outside of the Un=
ity Linux folks know what I do or what I'm capable of...sorry if you though=
t that I was trying to brag or if you thought it was supposed to intimidate=
 or condescend. =A0That wasn't the goal...it was simply to inform.=0A>=0A>=
=0A>There you go again with your "injustices". =A0Really guy, let it go. =
=A0You're too busy looking in the rear view mirror. =A0When you focus on is=
sues that are past, no matter if you're right or wrong, we all lose. =A0You=
 trip others up, you cause stress, you make others feel guilty if you're ri=
ght or you make others pissed off if you're wrong. =A0It REALLY DOESN'T MAT=
TER. =A0Work on the distribution. =A0Stop the "I was persecuted!!! =A0It's =
an injustice!!" crap because all it does is distract YOU and distract OTHER=
S from what is really important...and that is working on the distribution.=
=0A=0AThere you go again insisting this is all in the past.=A0 It's not!=A0=
 That's why it's still be discussed now.=A0 The problem persists at this ve=
ry moment, and it can't just be "let go" because it is wrong and harmful.=
=A0 I don't know why you want to keep putting words in everyone's mouth, sa=
ying they're looking back.=A0 I'm saying, let's not look back, let's forget=
 about the past disagreements and ugliness and start over with a clean slat=
e.=A0 Let's look forward, and find a solution that will be the best for the=
 project going forward.=A0 I'm saying let's be open and respectful.=A0 Let'=
s stop treating people like second-class citizens and being condescending a=
nd telling them to just stop "pissing and moaning" and just accept a bad si=
tuation.=A0 This is open source.=A0 People will not do that.=0A