Re: [OM Cooker] Are we still doing this moderation? Really?
devnet <[email protected]> Thu, 1 Aug 2013 12:58:30 -0400
| Newsgroups | gmane.linux.mandrake.cooker.devel |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAJFn95CkusHtkufaym2yo-XD58tXJmgDaR8yV5KmpgAPG0RZ_Q@mail.gmail.com> |
--bcaec548633268e6c704e2e5c049 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:55 AM, David Walser <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Who cares, seriously!? So you don't think restricting the ability of > developers to communicate could ever be a problem? You don't think someone > unfairly restricting one person's communication because they don't like > them or don't agree with them is OK, and is a healthy way to run an > open-source project? And who else are you going to file a "formal request" > with to change this? Why do you expect that people contribute to an open > source project in their own free time and of their own free will would want > to put up with such BS? How can you just "focus on the distribution" if > your ability to participate is so severely and arbitrarily curtailed? The > only thing that's tearing anything down right now is these arbitrary > restrictions. > Sure it's going to slow him down...and that sucks...it sucks whenever anyone's behavior causes multiple people to arrive at the conclusion they need their messages moderated. Most people on this mailing list have no idea why anyone would be moderated on it. I remember them calling at least 3 different meetings about that individual being moderated...sounds like they didn't come to the decision lightly. Maybe instead of wagging your finger of injustice at the people who moderate you might consider wagging your finger at the person moderated to RESPECT THE DECISION so that they can SHOW the deciding parties that he no longer exhibits said behavior and can have his messages arrive unmoderated? Might be a good thing to do. It's also the grown up thing to do. Continuing to bring up perceived injustices means you don't respect any decision made. It disrespects the people who made them. It's akin to spitting in the faces of each and every individual who took part in the decision and every single individual who believes in the organization that made the decision. Think about those things for a bit. > > And I participated in Cooker for 9 years without any kind of commit > access, but I also wasn't an extraordinarily active developer. I'm not > saying it doesn't work for anybody, I'm just saying it is a big problem for > a major contributor, especially one who works on more than packages, but > also self-hosted code like the installer and related tools. > I agree. And the ball is in his court. If he shows through his behavior that he's moved on and can focus strictly on the software without bringing up all the injustices he's suffered from...he might be surprised at how fast access is given again. > > I could be totally off base, but possibly as much as some of the people > I've come into contact with at work recently, who think that yelling and > berating and insulting and bullying people is the best way to get them to > do what you want them to do. Just because they work for a large > organization doesn't make them perfect. BTW, when injustices really are > committed against people, and then you criticize them for "pissing and > moaning" about it, that's also bullying. > You think this is insulting and bullying? You need thicker skin. If I were berating and insulting and bullying it would be much more harsher than "stop focusing on the past and start looking forward". > > There you go again insisting this is all in the past. It's not! That's > why it's still be discussed now. The problem persists at this very moment, > and it can't just be "let go" because it is wrong and harmful. I don't > know why you want to keep putting words in everyone's mouth, saying they're > looking back. I'm saying, let's not look back, let's forget about the past > disagreements and ugliness and start over with a clean slate. Let's look > forward, and find a solution that will be the best for the project going > forward. I'm saying let's be open and respectful. Let's stop treating > people like second-class citizens and being condescending and telling them > to just stop "pissing and moaning" and just accept a bad situation. This > is open source. People will not do that. > > When did all the stuff that made everyone so bitter happen again? Oh the past? That's right...it's BEHIND US. How about we quit bringing it to the front eh? Move on. If he wants things to go back to as they were...start by respecting the decisions made even if you don't agree with them because it wasn't just one person who arrived at those conclusions. Respect is given to those who give it and it's EARNED. Hopefully, everyone can put all this idiotic arguing behind and move forward. -- ________________________________________ <http://www.linkedin.com/in/dkdevine/> <https://plus.google.com/117069291335504349557/posts> <https://twitter.com/devnet> devnet http://linux-blog.org --bcaec548633268e6c704e2e5c049 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 1, 2013 at 10:55 AM, David W= alser=C2=A0<span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" t= arget=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span>=C2=A0wrote:<br><block= quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-w= idth:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding= -left:1ex"> <br><div class=3D"im"><br></div>Who cares, seriously!?=C2=A0 So you don'= ;t think restricting the ability of developers to communicate could ever be= a problem?=C2=A0 You don't think someone unfairly restricting one pers= on's communication because they don't like them or don't agree = with them is OK, and is a healthy way to run an open-source project?=C2=A0 = And who else are you going to file a "formal request" with to cha= nge this?=C2=A0 Why do you expect that people contribute to an open source = project in their own free time and of their own free will would want to put= up with such BS?=C2=A0 How can you just "focus on the distribution&qu= ot; if your ability to participate is so severely and arbitrarily curtailed= ?=C2=A0 The only thing that's tearing anything down right now is these = arbitrary restrictions.<br> </blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Sure it's going to slow= him down...and that sucks...it sucks whenever anyone's behavior causes= multiple people to arrive at the conclusion they need their messages moder= ated. =C2=A0Most people on this mailing list have no idea why anyone would = be moderated on it. =C2=A0I remember them calling at least 3 different meet= ings about that individual being moderated...sounds like they didn't co= me to the decision lightly. =C2=A0</div> <div><br></div><div>Maybe instead of wagging your finger of injustice at th= e people who moderate you might consider wagging your finger at the person = moderated to RESPECT THE DECISION so that they can SHOW the deciding partie= s that he no longer exhibits said behavior and can have his messages arrive= unmoderated? =C2=A0Might be a good thing to do. =C2=A0It's also the gr= own up thing to do. =C2=A0Continuing to bring up perceived injustices means= you don't respect any decision made. =C2=A0It disrespects the people w= ho made them. =C2=A0It's akin to spitting in the faces of each and ever= y individual who took part in the decision and every single individual who = believes in the organization that made the decision. =C2=A0Think about thos= e things for a bit.</div> <div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px = 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-l= eft-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im"><br></div>And I partici= pated in Cooker for 9 years without any kind of commit access, but I also w= asn't an extraordinarily active developer.=C2=A0 I'm not saying it = doesn't work for anybody, I'm just saying it is a big problem for a= major contributor, especially one who works on more than packages, but als= o self-hosted code like the installer and related tools.<br> </blockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree. =C2=A0And the ball is in his cour= t. =C2=A0If he shows through his behavior that he's moved on and can fo= cus strictly on the software without bringing up all the injustices he'= s suffered from...he might be surprised at how fast access is given again. = =C2=A0</div> <div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"= margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,20= 4,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im"><br>I co= uld be totally off base, but possibly as much as some of the people I'v= e come into contact with at work recently, who think that yelling and berat= ing and insulting and bullying people is the best way to get them to do wha= t you want them to do. =C2=A0Just because they work for a large organizatio= n doesn't make them perfect. =C2=A0BTW, when injustices really are comm= itted against people, and then you criticize them for "pissing and moa= ning" about it, that's also bullying.<br> </div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>You think this is ins= ulting and bullying? =C2=A0You need thicker skin. =C2=A0If I were berating = and insulting and bullying it would be much more harsher than "stop fo= cusing on the past and start looking forward".</div> <div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"= margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,20= 4,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"im"><br></di= v>There you go again insisting this is all in the past.=C2=A0 It's not!= =C2=A0 That's why it's still be discussed now.=C2=A0 The problem pe= rsists at this very moment, and it can't just be "let go" bec= ause it is wrong and harmful.=C2=A0 I don't know why you want to keep p= utting words in everyone's mouth, saying they're looking back.=C2= =A0 I'm saying, let's not look back, let's forget about the pas= t disagreements and ugliness and start over with a clean slate.=C2=A0 Let&#= 39;s look forward, and find a solution that will be the best for the projec= t going forward.=C2=A0 I'm saying let's be open and respectful.=C2= =A0 Let's stop treating people like second-class citizens and being con= descending and telling them to just stop "pissing and moaning" an= d just accept a bad situation.=C2=A0 This is open source.=C2=A0 People will= not do that.<br> <br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>When did all the stuff that made every= one so bitter happen again? =C2=A0Oh the past? =C2=A0That's right...it&= #39;s BEHIND US. =C2=A0How about we quit bringing it to the front eh? =C2= =A0Move on. =C2=A0If he wants things to go back to as they were...start by = respecting the decisions made even if you don't agree with them because= it wasn't just one person who arrived at those conclusions. =C2=A0Resp= ect is given to those who give it and it's EARNED. =C2=A0Hopefully, eve= ryone can put all this idiotic arguing behind and move forward.</div> </div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>--=C2=A0<br><div dir=3D"ltr"><fo= nt color=3D"#cccccc">________________________________________</font><div><f= ont color=3D"#cccccc"><br></font></div><div><font color=3D"#cccccc"><a href= =3D"http://www.linkedin.com/in/dkdevine/" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"htt= p://linux-blog.org/images/icon/linkedin_16.png"></a>=C2=A0=C2=A0<a href=3D"= https://plus.google.com/117069291335504349557/posts" target=3D"_blank"><img= src=3D"http://linux-blog.org/images/icon/google_plus_16.png"></a>=C2=A0=C2= =A0<a href=3D"https://twitter.com/devnet" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"htt= p://linux-blog.org/images/icon/twitter_16.png"></a><br> </font></div><div><span style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><b= r></span></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-= serif">devnet</font></div><div><font color=3D"#000000" face=3D"arial, helve= tica, sans-serif"><a href=3D"http://linux-blog.org/" target=3D"_blank">http= ://linux-blog.org</a></font></div> </div><div dir=3D"ltr"></div> --bcaec548633268e6c704e2e5c049--