Re: [OM Cooker] Project state and comments to recent questions

--001a114fcbe2bb0710051bc4e6ce
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2015-07-26 10:32 GMT+02:00 OpenMandriva Council <[email protected]>:

>
> Hello community
>
> The recent message "Project state, future and the inevitable doom=E2=80=
=9D was
> considered so counterproductive and rude that we've had to mute it and pu=
t
> its author on premoderation for now because we want this list to be
> productive without degenerating into flamewar-of-the-day.
>
In what way was it considered counterproductive and rude?
While I referred to someone as a psychopat, that's simply based on
behaviour demonstrated and damage inflicted, which most share opinion on.
For those who do not know the details around (yet some were provided),
those most likely perceived it as something rude, while to the rest it's
more about referring to something known and specific without having to
devolve into euphemisms and political correctness.

So being blunt about problematic characters etc. is something that's
absoluty necessary, as if not even able to acknowledge the problematic
nature of individiuals, one cannot remoty expect for the issues to be
resolved automagically by themself...

And if my allegations towards Kate's behaviour is unfair, she should be
able to defend herself against...
And asking questions about Kate & Reiman's commitment, is fully appropriate
to ask, Mandriva being liquidated, ROSA being sold, Kate even herself
revealed privately to others not knowing where she'll be in three months
(like about almost three months ago...), makes it extremely relevant.
Especially considering the former association President & current
vice-president, Rapha=C3=ABl Jadot told me about the severity of the situat=
ion
and how being unable to pay contributors that's supposed to receive
payment, while also being able  to cover server leasing cost, which IIRC
alone without paying contributors money owned, will only last for like a
few months lonnger.


My criticism towards Kate, comes much from information (that she should've
shared publically) shared by Rapha=C3=ABl in private, which also holds the =
same
frustration with Kate. (sorry Rapha=C3=ABl, you promised to write this mail=
 to
begin with, and you promised to participate once I raise the topic, so now
you need to share your views of matter, while also a general overview of he
situation as you see it.)


So Kate, can you care to comment on my allegations about pulling out?

>
> OpenMandriva is a team, consisting of many people, investing lots of time
> into the distro. We all have opinions and don't always agree, but we alwa=
ys
> look for consensus and resolve conflicts peacefully. Anyone can ask for a=
n
> issue to be put on a meeting agenda (meetings are held regularly at known
> times).The author of the muted email never did this. (To give you another
> idea of the approach, recently he stated for example, that the meetings
> were no good because they were held at the same time every week. So no
> matter what we do we will always be wrong).
>
Resorting to censorship is certainly not what can be considered as conensus
and peaceful conflict resolution, but rather bona fide oppression...

>
> The email violates our code of conduct (
> https://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/Mod) in several ways, and recent ECHR
> case law actually requires us to remove content that is potentially
> offensive to third parties (such as Matthew) from our servers. (see e.g.
> http://arstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2015/06/shock-european-court-decisio=
n-websites-are-liable-for-users-comments/
> )
>
I think not, while my characteristics of Matthew might've been found
offensive (people getting offended by criticism isn't an uncommon thing),
it provided context and argumentation to support description of behaviour..=
.

And considering that this is brought up, then the slanderous and clearly
lying slanderous blog post about me should've beenn removed ages ago:


https://forums.openmandriva.org/en/discussion/998/long-story-the-real-facts=
-and-a-long-overdue-reply-to-false-statement-moondrake-cooker-vs-oma

>
> The email does bring up a few points that we think need to be clarified
> (this tricky desinformation flow could seed some doubts, unfortunately).
>
If you provided information, there would be less room for desinformation.

> 1.     It is true that we are not rich, but we have enough money to keep
> all of our infrastructure safe for a minimum of 1 year from now, and we
> constantly work on various possibilities to further improve our financial
> state. And we do have progress. Members of association get annual financi=
al
> report, and answers to questions immediately after they ask these. We got
> nothing to hide and give no grounds to conspiracy theories.
>
So can we get an insight into these? If this is true, the situationn
must've drastically changed since Rapha=C3=ABl told me the following back i=
n
January...
"we have around 2000 =E2=82=AC, we owe around 1000 to Nicco and have to pay=
 around
350=E2=82=AC per month"

2.     Speaking of infra, in the last few days there was a high risk of
> that ABF would be switched off very soon (and ROSA would move its data
> somewhere else, relaunch etc, they can tell better themselves if asked).
> However, the Council was busy saving all our data and making sure that
> all of our common work is not under threat anymore. While the email autho=
r
> was busy with text in his regular style.
>
Yes, and this concern even if seemingly being less critical now, was
considered as far more severe threats, yet noone even spoke about this
possibly complete halt of the project in public, discussed how to deal
with, making preparations or anything in time that could've been made
necessary...


3.     As for the trademark situation, unfortunately "Mandriva is dead, so
> all their trademarks are gone" is not true, trademarks can be sold off an=
d
> Mandriva did that before being dissolved. The deal that allows us to use
> the OpenMandriva name is perpetual however, and cannot be revoked by the
> new owner of the trademarks, so we are safe. Similarily, Hearst still
> claims to own the Mandrake name, and while their case is weak, we don't
> think fighting off trademark suits is a wise use of our resources.
>
The new trademark holder leaves us with less flexibility and collaboration
concerning the use of, so a new trademark holder which is a creditor only
holding it as an asset, we cannot expect to have any interest from them in
consulting, advicing or making any potential future changes to...

Well, for Mandrake trademark, who would they be sueing?
In my proposal I made it clear that the association may have it's own OMV
Lx, but what's important to notice here is that the association doesn't own
the project, is not to control or have any legal responsibilities with the
project.
As it's been made quite clear that the original cooker project is different
from om-cooker, with the disitribution changing version number, signing
key, branding and everything of value that we still hold, the original
cooker project from which the original Linux-Mandrake was  made from is
clearly not the one which OMV Lx is coming from..
We should be allowed to continue the project under the same old one, for
which we are to make our own decissions of, with distribution releases made
separately from and keeping OMA out of any legal liabilities.

So OMA may produce their OMV Lx as long as they want to continue without
the cooker project's official release is being named Mandrake.
And since we have  no legal entity that would be targettable for being
sued, I'd happily take on all of the responsibility for any potential legal
issues that might arise from, and would be more than happy to invite Hearzt
to come sue me in court over in Norway...

4.     It was common decision to have not a =E2=80=9Cproject leader=E2=80=
=9D, but several
> people covering this role's objectives. Anyone interested in more detals,
> give a shout, we will tell more or dig out the relevant meeting logs.
>
This common decission was made in TC meetings that had been rejected
multiple times earlier on official mailing lists and meetings, yet a TC was
created for which all the proposals, voting and decissions are made within
the one and same meeting, without advance nor post notice about important
details being announced on list..

So a TC deciding this in a meeting where so few people were even able to
participate or voice their opinion to begin with, that really holds no
merit.

>
> As always, we welcome any input as long as it is made in a civilized
> manner - and let's avoid beating a dead horse over and over again.
>
So you consider that discussions about how the project is being governed
and it's future is the equivalent of beating a dead horse?

>
> OpenMandriva Council
>
Hiding behind "OpenMandriva Council" again?

Need I remind you that it's been repeatedly established that OMA is only to
support the distribution, not govern it..
It's been explicitly told not to interfer with the project previously more
than one time which was acknowledged previously, but now the newly elected
OMA council seems to forget about these ground rules, and not only
repeating the mistakesof the past, but even doing so far more aggressively.=
.


I'll bet that this mail won't reach it to any of the lists I've received it
from as I'm being censored (and yes, moderation, especially premoderation
is the exact definition of censorship, which are at strong conflicts with
democracy, which this association claims for it to be based itself on...


In stead of hiding behind general public responnses under "OpenMandriva
Council", you  should be able to answer the posts to the list written
easily yourself and answer questions and concerns raised rather than
ignoring or delfecting them which you clearly do now and thus avoids the
possibility for any constructive discussion taking place.

Also, I raised several legitimate concerns of non-offensive nature about
the project and distributionn that never were answered, and was admitted by
_TPG by himself to have been why he initiated discussions on this ban, in
response to what he perceived as an attack on how the project were being
run.

None of these issues that were the real cause for why censoring me on list,
while taking away my write access on ABF has even been answered.

The "OpenMandriva Council" is not supposed to hold any higher ranking place
within cooker than anyone else, actually even less, as it's not any
contributing individual to the project.


So why the Council sees it fit to interfer and dictate the rules for the
project, what may be discussed on list, banning people from infrastructure
etc. is something which any speculations regarding would not lend to it's
favor...
The counter-productive and rather destructive behaviour of taking away
access from one of the most important key contributors only speaks about
the complete disregard this council has for the project, but rather caring
more about their personal motivations and reputation..

As [email protected] is the only list that this post is expected to make it
to, I ask for anyone that I CC'ed to forward it to the other lists where
this post was sent to, yet where I'm being moderated...
--
Regards,
Per =C3=98yvind

--001a114fcbe2bb0710051bc4e6ce
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2015=
-07-26 10:32 GMT+02:00 OpenMandriva Council <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">council@openmandriva=
.org</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0=
 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-w=
rap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-=
family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:norma=
l;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;text-align:star=
t;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px=
"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">=C2=A0</span></div><div style=
=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;lette=
r-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tra=
nsform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"margin:0p=
x;padding:1px 0px">Hello community</span></div><div style=3D"margin:0px;pad=
ding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;font-=
style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;l=
ine-height:16px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-=
space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><br style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px"></div=
><div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sa=
ns-serif;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:n=
ormal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;text-align:start;text-indent:0=
px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><span style=
=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">The recent message &quot;Project state, fut=
ure and the inevitable doom=E2=80=9D was considered so counterproductive an=
d rude that we&#39;ve had to mute it and put its author on premoderation fo=
r now because we want this list to be productive without degenerating into =
flamewar-of-the-day.</span></div></div></blockquote><div>In what way was it=
 considered counterproductive and rude?<br></div><div>While I referred to s=
omeone as a psychopat, that&#39;s simply based on behaviour demonstrated an=
d damage inflicted, which most share opinion on. For those who do not know =
the details around (yet some were provided), those most likely perceived it=
 as something rude, while to the rest it&#39;s more about referring to some=
thing known and specific without having to devolve into euphemisms and poli=
tical correctness.<br><br></div><div>So being blunt about problematic chara=
cters etc. is something that&#39;s absoluty necessary, as if not even able =
to acknowledge the problematic nature of individiuals, one cannot remoty ex=
pect for the issues to be resolved automagically by themself...<br><br></di=
v><div>And if my allegations towards Kate&#39;s behaviour is unfair, she sh=
ould be able to defend herself against...<br></div><div>And asking question=
s about Kate &amp; Reiman&#39;s commitment, is fully appropriate to ask, Ma=
ndriva being liquidated, ROSA being sold, Kate even herself revealed privat=
ely to others not knowing where she&#39;ll be in three months (like about a=
lmost three months ago...), makes it extremely relevant.<br></div><div>Espe=
cially considering the former association President &amp; current vice-pres=
ident, Rapha=C3=ABl Jadot told me about the severity of the situation and h=
ow being unable to pay contributors that&#39;s supposed to receive payment,=
 while also being able=C2=A0 to cover server leasing cost, which IIRC alone=
 without paying contributors money owned, will only last for like a few mon=
ths lonnger.<br><br><br></div><div>My criticism towards Kate, comes much fr=
om information (that she should&#39;ve shared publically) shared by Rapha=
=C3=ABl in private, which also holds the same frustration with Kate. (sorry=
 Rapha=C3=ABl, you promised to write this mail to begin with, and you promi=
sed to participate once I raise the topic, so now you need to share your vi=
ews of matter, while also a general overview of he situation as you see it.=
)<br><br><br></div><div>So Kate, can you care to comment on my allegations =
about pulling out?<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"wo=
rd-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);f=
ont-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:n=
ormal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;text-align:=
start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing=
:0px"><br style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px"></div><div style=3D"margin:0px;p=
adding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;fon=
t-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal=
;line-height:16px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;whit=
e-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0p=
x">OpenMandriva is a team, consisting of many people, investing lots of tim=
e into the distro. We all have opinions and don&#39;t always agree, but we =
always look for consensus and resolve conflicts peacefully. Anyone can ask =
for an issue to be put on a meeting agenda (meetings are held regularly at =
known times).The author of the muted email never did this. (To give you ano=
ther idea of the approach, recently he stated for example, that the meeting=
s were no good because they were held at the same time every week. So no ma=
tter what we do we will always be wrong).</span></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv>Resorting to censorship is certainly not what can be considered as conen=
sus and peaceful conflict resolution, but rather bona fide oppression...<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><=
div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans=
-serif;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:nor=
mal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px=
;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><br style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px;padding:0px"></div><div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(=
0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-v=
ariant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;tex=
t-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word=
-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">The email violates=
 our code of conduct (</span><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px"><a =
href=3D"https://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/Mod)" style=3D"margin:0px;padding:=
0px" target=3D"_blank">https://wiki.openmandriva.org/en/Mod)</a></span><spa=
n style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px"> in several ways, and recent ECHR ca=
se law actually requires us to remove content that is potentially offensive=
 to third parties (such as Matthew) from our servers. (see e.g. </span><spa=
n style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px"><a href=3D"http://arstechnica.co.uk/=
tech-policy/2015/06/shock-european-court-decision-websites-are-liable-for-u=
sers-comments/" style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px" target=3D"_blank">http://a=
rstechnica.co.uk/tech-policy/2015/06/shock-european-court-decision-websites=
-are-liable-for-users-comments/</a></span><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding=
:1px 0px"> )</span></div></div></blockquote><div>I think not, while my char=
acteristics of Matthew might&#39;ve been found offensive (people getting of=
fended by criticism isn&#39;t an uncommon thing), it provided context and a=
rgumentation to support description of behaviour...<br><br></div><div>And c=
onsidering that this is brought up, then the slanderous and clearly lying s=
landerous blog post about me should&#39;ve beenn removed ages ago:<br><br><=
br><a href=3D"https://forums.openmandriva.org/en/discussion/998/long-story-=
the-real-facts-and-a-long-overdue-reply-to-false-statement-moondrake-cooker=
-vs-oma">https://forums.openmandriva.org/en/discussion/998/long-story-the-r=
eal-facts-and-a-long-overdue-reply-to-false-statement-moondrake-cooker-vs-o=
ma</a><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:brea=
k-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:A=
rial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-w=
eight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;text-align:start;text-i=
ndent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><br st=
yle=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px"></div><div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;font-style:norm=
al;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height=
:16px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-=
wrap;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">The e</sp=
an><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">mail does bring up a few poin=
ts that we think need to be clarified (this tricky desinformation flow coul=
d seed some doubts, unfortunately).</span></div></div></blockquote><div>If =
you provided information, there would be less room for desinformation. <br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><d=
iv style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-=
serif;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:norm=
al;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;=
text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"m=
argin:0px;padding:1px 0px">1.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It is true that we ar=
e not rich, but we have enough money to keep all of our infrastructure safe=
 for </span><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">a </span><span style=
=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">minimum </span><span style=3D"margin:0px;pa=
dding:1px 0px">of </span><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">1 year =
from now, and we constantly work on various possibilities to further improv=
e our financial state. And we do have progress. Members of association get =
annual financial report, and answers to questions immediately after they as=
k these. We got nothing to hide and give no grounds to conspiracy theories.=
</span></div></div></blockquote><div>So can we get an insight into these? I=
f this is true, the situationn must&#39;ve drastically changed since Rapha=
=C3=ABl told me the following back in January...<br>&quot;we have around 20=
00 =E2=82=AC, we owe around 1000 to Nicco and have to pay around 350=E2=82=
=AC per month&quot;<div class=3D"_38 direction_ltr"><span class=3D"null"></=
span><br></div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 =
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap=
:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-fam=
ily:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;f=
ont-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;text-align:start;t=
ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><=
span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Speaki=
ng of infra, </span><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">in the last =
few</span><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px"> days there was a high=
 risk of that ABF would be switched off very soon (and R</span><span style=
=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">OSA</span><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding=
:1px 0px"> would move its data somewhere else, relaunch etc, they can tell =
better themselves if asked). However, the </span><span style=3D"margin:0px;=
padding:1px 0px">C</span><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">ouncil =
was busy saving all our data and making sure that all of our common work is=
 not under threat anymore. While the email author was busy with text in his=
 regular style.=C2=A0</span></div></div></blockquote><div>Yes, and this con=
cern even if seemingly being less critical now, was considered as far more =
severe threats, yet noone even spoke about this possibly complete halt of t=
he project in public, discussed how to deal with, making preparations or an=
ything in time that could&#39;ve been made necessary...<br><br><br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px =
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=
=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;lette=
r-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tra=
nsform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"margin:0p=
x;padding:1px 0px">3.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 As for the trademark situatio=
n, unfortunately &quot;Mandriva is dead, so all their trademarks are gone&q=
uot; is not true, trademarks can be sold off and Mandriva did that before b=
eing dissolved. The deal that allows us to use the OpenMandriva name is per=
petual however, and cannot be revoked by the new owner of the trademarks, s=
o we are safe. Similarily, Hearst still claims to own the Mandrake name, an=
d while their case is weak, we don&#39;t think fighting off trademark suits=
 is a wise use of our resources.</span></div></div></blockquote><div>The ne=
w trademark holder leaves us with less flexibility and collaboration concer=
ning the use of, so a new trademark holder which is a creditor only holding=
 it as an asset, we cannot expect to have any interest from them in consult=
ing, advicing or making any potential future changes to...<br><br></div><di=
v>Well, for Mandrake trademark, who would they be sueing?<br></div><div>In =
my proposal I made it clear that the association may have it&#39;s own OMV =
Lx, but what&#39;s important to notice here is that the association doesn&#=
39;t own the project, is not to control or have any legal responsibilities =
with the project.<br></div><div>As it&#39;s been made quite clear that the =
original cooker project is different from om-cooker, with the disitribution=
 changing version number, signing key, branding and everything of value tha=
t we still hold, the original cooker project from which the original Linux-=
Mandrake was=C2=A0 made from is clearly not the one which OMV Lx is coming =
from..<br>We should be allowed to continue the project under the same old o=
ne, for which we are to make our own decissions of, with distribution relea=
ses made separately from and keeping OMA out of any legal liabilities.<br><=
br></div><div>So OMA may produce their OMV Lx as long as they want to conti=
nue without the cooker project&#39;s official release is being named Mandra=
ke.<br></div><div>And since we have=C2=A0 no legal entity that would be tar=
gettable for being sued, I&#39;d happily take on all of the responsibility =
for any potential legal issues that might arise from, and would be more tha=
n happy to invite Hearzt to come sue me in court over in Norway...<br><br><=
/div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-le=
ft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><di=
v style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-s=
erif;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:norma=
l;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;t=
ext-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"ma=
rgin:0px;padding:1px 0px">4.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 It was common decision=
 to have not a =E2=80=9Cproject leader=E2=80=9D, but several people coverin=
g this role</span><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">&#39;s</span><=
span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px"> objectives. </span><span style=
=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">Anyone</span><span style=3D"margin:0px;padd=
ing:1px 0px"> interested in more detals, give a shout, we will tell more or=
 dig out the relevant meeting logs.=C2=A0</span></div></div></blockquote><d=
iv>This common decission was made in TC meetings that had been rejected mul=
tiple times earlier on official mailing lists and meetings, yet a TC was cr=
eated for which all the proposals, voting and decissions are made within th=
e one and same meeting, without advance nor post notice about important det=
ails being announced on list..<br><br></div><div>So a TC deciding this in a=
 meeting where so few people were even able to participate or voice their o=
pinion to begin with, that really holds no merit.<br></div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div style=3D"margin:0px=
;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;f=
ont-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:norm=
al;line-height:16px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;wh=
ite-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px =
0px">=C2=A0</span></div><div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,=
0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-varia=
nt:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;text-al=
ign:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spa=
cing:0px"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">As always, we welcome =
any input as long as it is made in a civilized manner - and let&#39;s avoid=
 </span><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">beat</span><span style=
=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">ing a dead horse over and over again.</span=
></div></div></blockquote><div>So you consider that discussions about how t=
he project is being governed and it&#39;s future is the equivalent of beati=
ng a dead horse?<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"word=
-wrap:break-word"><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div style=
=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;lette=
r-spacing:normal;line-height:16px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-tra=
nsform:none;white-space:pre-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"margin:0p=
x;padding:1px 0px">=C2=A0</span></div><div style=3D"margin:0px;padding:0px;=
color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12px;font-style:nor=
mal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-heigh=
t:16px;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:pre=
-wrap;word-spacing:0px"><span style=3D"margin:0px;padding:1px 0px">OpenMand=
riva Council</span></div></font></span></div></blockquote><div>Hiding behin=
d &quot;OpenMandriva Council&quot; again?<br><br></div><div>Need I remind y=
ou that it&#39;s been repeatedly established that OMA is only to support th=
e distribution, not govern it..<br></div><div>It&#39;s been explicitly told=
 not to interfer with the project previously more than one time which was a=
cknowledged previously, but now the newly elected OMA council seems to forg=
et about these ground rules, and not only repeating the mistakesof the past=
, but even doing so far more aggressively..<br><br></div><div>=C2=A0<br></d=
iv></div>I&#39;ll bet that this mail won&#39;t reach it to any of the lists=
 I&#39;ve received it from as I&#39;m being censored (and yes, moderation, =
especially premoderation is the exact definition of censorship, which are a=
t strong conflicts with democracy, which this association claims for it to =
be based itself on...<br><br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">In stead =
of hiding behind general public responnses under &quot;OpenMandriva Council=
&quot;, you=C2=A0 should be able to answer the posts to the list written ea=
sily yourself and answer questions and concerns raised rather than ignoring=
 or delfecting them which you clearly do now and thus avoids the possibilit=
y for any constructive discussion taking place.<br><br></div><div class=3D"=
gmail_extra">Also, I raised several legitimate concerns of non-offensive na=
ture about the project and distributionn that never were answered, and was =
admitted by _TPG by himself to have been why he initiated discussions on th=
is ban, in response to what he perceived as an attack on how the project we=
re being run.<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>None of these issues =
that were the real cause for why censoring me on list, while taking away my=
 write access on ABF has even been answered.<br><br></div><div class=3D"gma=
il_extra">The &quot;OpenMandriva Council&quot; is not supposed to hold any =
higher ranking place within cooker than anyone else, actually even less, as=
 it&#39;s not any contributing individual to the project.<br><br><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra">So why the Council sees it fit to interfer and d=
ictate the rules for the project, what may be discussed on list, banning pe=
ople from infrastructure etc. is something which any speculations regarding=
 would not lend to it&#39;s favor...<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Th=
e counter-productive and rather destructive behaviour of taking away access=
 from one of the most important key contributors only speaks about the comp=
lete disregard this council has for the project, but rather caring more abo=
ut their personal motivations and reputation..<br><br></div><div class=3D"g=
mail_extra">As <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> is th=
e only list that this post is expected to make it to, I ask for anyone that=
 I CC&#39;ed to forward it to the other lists where this post was sent to, =
yet where I&#39;m being moderated...<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">--=
<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Regards,<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
extra">Per =C3=98yvind<br></div></div>

--001a114fcbe2bb0710051bc4e6ce--