Re: About translations
Marek Laane <[email protected]> Thu, 25 Aug 2011 21:28:38 +0300
| Newsgroups | gmane.linux.mandrake.cooker.internationalization |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAC0LJT9VDXSQopCzgpSG7oDLJSf80g_8uUCrrgfMkQhy6HybkQ@mail.gmail.com> |
--0016e64e920ef8a82a04ab5898e4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 2011/8/25 <[email protected]> > On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 09:45:34PM +0400, Juliette Tux wrote: > > > Transifex (and not SVN anymore) being only translation environment - is > good for me. > > Yes, seems to me that by now the only right thing we all have to do -- > > is to center every translation effort on Mandriva Transifex ONLY > > As far as know, Alexander Kazancev & some other Rosa members plan to > > do some simple scripting for moving locales from transifex to svn, so > > let's wait for Alexander what he says :) > > I prefer using SVN - that works for me, while transiflex does not. > And I have some procedures with svn that makes it easier for me. > > Why not have both ways, if there really are some people that are > so happy with transifleks. > > best regards > keld > > AFAIR from previous discussions, due to limitations of Transifex there were problems to have Transifex and SVN (correctly) synchronized if changes are made in both. Marek Laane Estonian translator > > > On 25 August 2011 21:18, Marek Laane <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > 2011/8/25 Juliette Tux <[email protected]> > > >> > > >> Hello everybody, my name is Julia Dronova I'm one of a new translators > > >> in Russian team. I want to say that by now the whole localization > > >> structure is messed, just like almost everything in Mandriva. We'll > > >> need some time (after releasing 2011) to decide what to do with all > > >> these problems and to sketch and build some good working structure > > >> where minimum efforts will be needed from the translators' side to > > >> care about upstream commiting. > > >> Yes the developers (in Rosa team at least) are aware of the problem > > >> and by now they definitely know that translators do need somebody who > > >> will do svn-commiting on regular basis, but my opinion on the subject > > >> is that we really need some engine (new or existing somewhere on > > >> FreshMeat, google-code etc) to automate both the translating part and > > >> svn-commiting just not to depend too much on developers+let them do > > >> their coding calmly. > > >> > > > So, is it to say ML 2011 will stay translation-wise as bad as it is > (or, as > > > good as it is, if you prefer that way :-) ) but there is still hope ML > 2012 > > > (or whatever next release will be) would be better? > > > I have to say proposed and probably somehow working system - Transifex > (and > > > not SVN anymore) being only translation environment - is good for me. > The > > > problem is more in communication; translators have to know what they > are > > > supposed to > > > do.?? > https://transifex.mandriva.com/projects/p/mandriva_desktop/r/2011/ is > > > very good but it appeared too late. For next release I propose to make > a > > > "project" in Transifex as soon as possible - it makes no harm if one > would > > > translate something what will be removed later in development cycle; > much > > > more harm is done if there is no hint at all what we are supposed to > keep an > > > eye on, as it was now. And, of course, there has to be clear statement > who > > > or how has to transfer translations from Transifex into SVN. > > > Marek Laane > > > Estonian translator > > >> > > >> On 25 August 2011 20:32, Marek Laane <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > 2011/8/25 <[email protected]> > > >> >> > > >> >> > I totally agree with statistic in transifex, especially if the > > >> >> > http://mdk.jack.kiev.ua/stats/gui/trunk/team/et/ is not being > synced > > >> >> > anymore. > > >> >> > > > >> >> > -- > > >> >> > bedi > > >> >> I think, at last for old translators, that they still could use the > > >> >> commit > > >> >> direct to svn method, instead only transifex, actually, i prefer to > > >> >> translate > > >> >> direct on svn, but for new comers it may be better transifex, but > true > > >> >> is, > > >> >> both > > >> >> http://mdk.jack.kiev.ua/stats and transifex should work, and the > > >> >> translator > > >> >> chooses his prefered method. > > >> >> > > >> >> -- > > >> >> bedi > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> > Well, being "old translator", I'm surely in no way against having > > >> > Transifex > > >> > only translation environment, as it seems to be preferred method > now, > > >> > but > > >> > what I'm really concerned is how translations are coming back from > > >> > Transifex > > >> > to SVN - AFAIK translations for release are still taken from SVN not > > >> > directly from Transifex. Maybe I've forgotten something but I do not > > >> > remember any clear decision who has to do it, we, translators, or > > >> > somebody > > >> > else (mysterious translation coordinator?). Though, I seem to > remember, > > >> > it > > >> > was proposed to be responsibility of developers themselves but > looking > > >> > at??http://svn.mandriva.com/viewvc/soft/?sortby=date??I rather > doubt they > > >> > consider it or, maybe, even know it is their responsibility... > > >> > Marek Laane > > >> > Estonian translator > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> >> > Em Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:41:19 -0300, Marek Laane <[email protected]> > > >> >> > escreveu: > > >> >> > > > >> >> >> First and most important: I'm really pissed of about translation > > >> >> >> management > > >> >> >> (or, rather mis/nonmanagement) in this development cycle and > > >> >> >> seriously > > >> >> >> contemplating to make, after 10 years, Mandriva history for me. > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> More specifically. Up to today I lived in blessed knowledge that > > >> >> >> Estonian > > >> >> >> translation is totally OK as the only statistics I know of ( > > >> >> >> http://mdk.jack.kiev.ua/stats/gui/trunk/team/et/) showed > translation > > >> >> >> at > > >> >> >> 100%. Yes, I did know Transifex is in equation, too, but sadly > there > > >> >> >> is > > >> >> >> no > > >> >> >> statistics, even not the ML 2011 project which could be used as > > >> >> >> reference > > >> >> >> point, and besides I had perception SVN and Transifex are > > >> >> >> synchronized, > > >> >> >> so I > > >> >> >> didn't think Transifex can have updated or new strings which are > not > > >> >> >> reflected in mentioned statistics page. So, if I saw today, > > >> >> >> mandriva-kde-translation has some new strings, I did go to > Transifex > > >> >> >> (it > > >> >> >> is > > >> >> >> recommended now, not directly committing in SVN, AFAIK). For > some > > >> >> >> peculiar > > >> >> >> reason I decided to see other files, too, and was really shocked > to > > >> >> >> see > > >> >> >> many > > >> >> >> new/updated strings. Nothing about them in mentioned statistics > > >> >> >> page, > > >> >> >> and > > >> >> >> even more, nobody mentioned about them to the translators, e.g. > in > > >> >> >> cooker-i18n list. Of course, I updated all of them and can now > just > > >> >> >> hope > > >> >> >> they make it in ML 2011... But what I really cannot understand, > is > > >> >> >> why > > >> >> >> nobody at Mandriva seems to care about translations anymore... > It > > >> >> >> was > > >> >> >> bad > > >> >> >> for last release but now I've feeling translators and > translations > > >> >> >> are > > >> >> >> absolutely abandoned... > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> Marek Laane > > >> >> >> Estonian translator > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > -- > > >> >> > Usando o revolucion??rio cliente de e-mail do Opera: > > >> >> > http://www.opera.com/mail/ > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> ?? ??????????????????, ?????????????? ???????? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > ?? ??????????????????, ?????????????? ???????? > --0016e64e920ef8a82a04ab5898e4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2011/8/25 <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href= =3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>></span><br><blockquote c= lass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;= padding-left:1ex;"> <div class=3D"im">On Thu, Aug 25, 2011 at 09:45:34PM +0400, Juliette Tux wr= ote:<br> > > Transifex (and not SVN anymore) being only translation environmen= t - is good for me.<br> > Yes, seems to me that by now the only right thing we all have to do --= <br> > is to center every translation effort on Mandriva Transifex ONLY<br> > As far as know, Alexander Kazancev & some other Rosa members plan = to<br> > do some simple scripting for moving locales from transifex to svn, so<= br> > let's wait for Alexander what he says :)<br> <br> </div>I prefer using SVN - that works for me, while transiflex does not.<br= > And I have some procedures with svn that makes it easier for me.<br> <br> Why not have both ways, if there really are some people that are<br> so happy with transifleks.<br> <br> best regards<br> keld<br> <div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br></div></div></blockquote><div>AFAIR f= rom previous discussions, due to limitations of Transifex there were proble= ms to have Transifex and SVN (correctly) synchronized if changes are made i= n both.=A0</div> <div><br></div><div>Marek Laane</div><div>Estonian translator</div><div><br= ></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-= left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div class=3D"h5"> ><br> > On 25 August 2011 21:18, Marek Laane <<a href=3D"mailto:bald@smail.= ee">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> > ><br> > ><br> > > 2011/8/25 Juliette Tux <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]= om">[email protected]</a>><br> > >><br> > >> Hello everybody, my name is Julia Dronova I'm one of a ne= w translators<br> > >> in Russian team. I want to say that by now the whole localiza= tion<br> > >> structure is messed, just like almost everything in Mandriva.= We'll<br> > >> need some time (after releasing 2011) to decide what to do wi= th all<br> > >> these problems and to sketch and build some good working stru= cture<br> > >> where minimum efforts will be needed from the translators'= ; side to<br> > >> care about upstream commiting.<br> > >> Yes the developers (in Rosa team at least) are aware of the p= roblem<br> > >> and by now they definitely know that translators do need some= body who<br> > >> will do svn-commiting on regular basis, but my opinion on the= subject<br> > >> is that we really need some engine (new or existing somewhere= on<br> > >> FreshMeat, google-code etc) to automate both the translating = part and<br> > >> svn-commiting just not to depend too much on developers+let t= hem do<br> > >> their coding calmly.<br> > >><br> > > So, is it to say ML 2011 will stay translation-wise as bad as it = is (or, as<br> > > good as it is, if you prefer that way :-) ) but there is still ho= pe ML 2012<br> > > (or whatever next release will be) would be better?<br> > > I have to say proposed and probably somehow working system - Tran= sifex (and<br> > > not SVN anymore) being only translation environment - is good for= me. The<br> > > problem is more in communication; translators have to know what t= hey are<br> > > supposed to<br> > > do.??<a href=3D"https://transifex.mandriva.com/projects/p/mandriv= a_desktop/r/2011/" target=3D"_blank">https://transifex.mandriva.com/project= s/p/mandriva_desktop/r/2011/</a> is<br> > > very good but it appeared too late. For next release I propose to= make a<br> > > "project" in Transifex as soon as possible - it makes n= o harm if one would<br> > > translate something what will be removed later in development cyc= le; much<br> > > more harm is done if there is no hint at all what we are supposed= to keep an<br> > > eye on, as it was now. And, of course, there has to be clear stat= ement who<br> > > or how has to transfer translations from Transifex into SVN.<br> > > Marek Laane<br> > > Estonian translator<br> > >><br> > >> On 25 August 2011 20:32, Marek Laane <<a href=3D"mailto:ba= [email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br> > >> ><br> > >> ><br> > >> > 2011/8/25 <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">= [email protected]</a>><br> > >> >><br> > >> >> > I totally agree with statistic in transifex, es= pecially if the<br> > >> >> > <a href=3D"http://mdk.jack.kiev.ua/stats/gui/tr= unk/team/et/" target=3D"_blank">http://mdk.jack.kiev.ua/stats/gui/trunk/tea= m/et/</a> is not being synced<br> > >> >> > anymore.<br> > >> >> ><br> > >> >> > --<br> > >> >> > bedi<br> > >> >> I think, at last for old translators, that they stil= l could use the<br> > >> >> commit<br> > >> >> direct to svn method, instead only transifex, actual= ly, i prefer to<br> > >> >> translate<br> > >> >> direct on svn, but for new comers it may be better t= ransifex, but true<br> > >> >> is,<br> > >> >> both<br> > >> >> <a href=3D"http://mdk.jack.kiev.ua/stats" target=3D"= _blank">http://mdk.jack.kiev.ua/stats</a> and transifex should work, and th= e<br> > >> >> translator<br> > >> >> chooses his prefered method.<br> > >> >><br> > >> >> --<br> > >> >> bedi<br> > >> >><br> > >> >><br> > >> > Well, being "old translator", I'm surely i= n no way against having<br> > >> > Transifex<br> > >> > only translation environment, as it seems to be preferre= d method now,<br> > >> > but<br> > >> > what I'm really concerned is how translations are co= ming back from<br> > >> > Transifex<br> > >> > to SVN - AFAIK translations for release are still taken = from SVN not<br> > >> > directly from Transifex. Maybe I've forgotten someth= ing but I do not<br> > >> > remember any clear decision who has to do it, we, transl= ators, or<br> > >> > somebody<br> > >> > else (mysterious translation coordinator?). Though, I se= em to remember,<br> > >> > it<br> > >> > was proposed to be responsibility of developers themselv= es but looking<br> > >> > at??<a href=3D"http://svn.mandriva.com/viewvc/soft/?sort= by=3Ddate??I" target=3D"_blank">http://svn.mandriva.com/viewvc/soft/?sortby= =3Ddate??I</a> rather doubt they<br> > >> > consider it or, maybe, even know it is their responsibil= ity...<br> > >> > Marek Laane<br> > >> > Estonian translator<br> > >> >><br> > >> >> ><br> > >> >> > Em Wed, 24 Aug 2011 13:41:19 -0300, Marek Laane= <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>><br> > >> >> > escreveu:<br> > >> >> ><br> > >> >> >> First and most important: I'm really pi= ssed of about translation<br> > >> >> >> management<br> > >> >> >> (or, rather mis/nonmanagement) in this deve= lopment cycle and<br> > >> >> >> seriously<br> > >> >> >> contemplating to make, after 10 years, Mand= riva history for me.<br> > >> >> >><br> > >> >> >> More specifically. Up to today I lived in b= lessed knowledge that<br> > >> >> >> Estonian<br> > >> >> >> translation is totally OK as the only stati= stics I know of (<br> > >> >> >> <a href=3D"http://mdk.jack.kiev.ua/stats/gu= i/trunk/team/et/" target=3D"_blank">http://mdk.jack.kiev.ua/stats/gui/trunk= /team/et/</a>) showed translation<br> > >> >> >> at<br> > >> >> >> 100%. Yes, I did know Transifex is in equat= ion, too, but sadly there<br> > >> >> >> is<br> > >> >> >> no<br> > >> >> >> statistics, even not the ML 2011 project wh= ich could be used as<br> > >> >> >> reference<br> > >> >> >> point, and besides I had perception SVN and= Transifex are<br> > >> >> >> synchronized,<br> > >> >> >> so I<br> > >> >> >> didn't think Transifex can have updated= or new strings which are not<br> > >> >> >> reflected in mentioned statistics page. So,= if I saw today,<br> > >> >> >> mandriva-kde-translation has some new strin= gs, I did go to Transifex<br> > >> >> >> (it<br> > >> >> >> is<br> > >> >> >> recommended now, not directly committing in= SVN, AFAIK). For some<br> > >> >> >> peculiar<br> > >> >> >> reason I decided to see other files, too, a= nd was really shocked to<br> > >> >> >> see<br> > >> >> >> many<br> > >> >> >> new/updated strings. Nothing about them in = mentioned statistics<br> > >> >> >> page,<br> > >> >> >> and<br> > >> >> >> even more, nobody mentioned about them to t= he translators, e.g. in<br> > >> >> >> cooker-i18n list. Of course, I updated all = of them and can now just<br> > >> >> >> hope<br> > >> >> >> they make it in ML 2011... But what I reall= y cannot understand, is<br> > >> >> >> why<br> > >> >> >> nobody at Mandriva seems to care about tran= slations anymore... It<br> > >> >> >> was<br> > >> >> >> bad<br> > >> >> >> for last release but now I've feeling t= ranslators and translations<br> > >> >> >> are<br> > >> >> >> absolutely abandoned...<br> > >> >> >><br> > >> >> >><br> > >> >> >> Marek Laane<br> > >> >> >> Estonian translator<br> > >> >> ><br> > >> >> ><br> > >> >> > --<br> </div></div>> >> >> > Usando o revolucion??rio cliente de= e-mail do Opera:<br> <div class=3D"im">> >> >> > <a href=3D"http://www.opera.c= om/mail/" target=3D"_blank">http://www.opera.com/mail/</a><br> > >> >> ><br> > >> >><br> > >> ><br> > >> ><br> > >><br> > >><br> > >><br> > >> --<br> </div>> >> ?? ??????????????????, ?????????????? ????????<br> > ><br> > ><br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > --<br> > ?? ??????????????????, ?????????????? ????????<br> </blockquote></div><br> --0016e64e920ef8a82a04ab5898e4--