Re: Re: Gc-linux-devel digest, Vol 1 #88 - 1 msg

On Wed, 2004-08-25 at 05:51, Michael Steil wrote:
> On Aug 25, 2004, at 1:21 PM, Groepaz wrote:
> >> But they do ban atomic bombs, because they can be used for killing
> >> *only*.
> >> There is *no* use for the drivers other than reading and copying 
> >> games.
> >
> > thats nonsence. what if i want to examine the contents of a game in 
> > order
> > to reverse engineer them? what if i want to create a mediaplayer to 
> > play
> > those movies on my MGS discs? what about serving the dvd contents to my
> > pc so i can use them with the emulator i am writing? what about running
> > executeables from retail games from within linux? i'm sure i could make
> > this list a lot longer, and i'm sure other people have other uses too.
> 
> These are very good points.
> 
> > i personally think its just funny how people suddenly go bezerk when
> > a certain thing is mildly related to piracy.
> 
> I know what I am talking about, because Linux has been abused before 
> for questionable purposes:
> * Although Linux on the pay-tv decoder "dbox" is excellent, people have 
> abused the flexibility of Linux to add code that hacks pay-tv.
> * Pirates have used Linux and the "raincoat" flashing program to modify 
> their Xboxes so that they could play copied games. Raincoat was 
> supposed to flash only Linux bootloaders.
> * Pirates have used Linux and the Linux FATX filesystem driver on the 
> Xbox to modify the hard disk contents so that they could play copied 
> games. The FATX driver was intended to make it possible to have Linux 
> in an image file on a FATX drive.
> * Pirates have used the "DayX/Ernie&Bert/Font hack" as well as the 
> MechInstaller solution on the Xbox to mod their Xbox for copied games. 
> All these were indended for running Linux only.
> 
> In the Xbox Linux project, we have always been very careful what to 
> include and what to publish. For example, we had not published the 
> source code of MechInstaller, and we have not written a filesystem 
> driver for Xbox game DVDs.
> 
> > i find it even more amusing
> > that the same people seem to think that pirates are to stupid to write
> > their own ripping software (or their own loaders for that matter).
> 
> I my experience, they like to leverage the existing work for their 
> purposes. It has been done with dbox Linux, raincoat, FATX and the font 
> hack.
> 
> I would continue to be very careful on what to release and what not. 
> Certainly there are two important exceptions:
> * if there are already solutions for piracy, we can release our 
> solution as well, if it does not make piracy easier
> * if our solution has a real sense for our project, we can of course 
> release it.
> 
> Your points are good, so I might agree to adding the code to the 
> project (note that I am not implying I have some veto right or 
> something), but I do not think that everyone should just "do what can 
> be done".
> 
>    Michael
> 

I think Michael's concerns were valid to a point, but with the tools to
perform these tasks already easily available/accessible, I don't think
there should be concern these efforts will be exploited beyond what is
already possible.

I do like the idea of being able to gain access to the media on the gc
discs I own, I'm not a pirate if I want to play some music or video
clips from a game disc... I'm not distributing this media, and it
doesn't make sense to restrict it as such.

My vote is to include the code, and end this mute argument.

Alex



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