Re: Standard configuration files
"Pedro Bezunartea López" <[email protected]> Mon, 12 Jun 2006 21:53:44 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.configuration |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============1168556321==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="----=_Part_90575_9601655.1150142024678"
------=_Part_90575_9601655.1150142024678
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
Hello Patrick,
First, sorry for the off-topic, but you didn't tell me which mailing list i=
s
the right one. I reviewed all of them and from the topic of the list: "This
mailing list is for discussing configuration tool development." I thought i=
t
was the right one.
Second, I agree that the task of standarizing the way any software get's it=
s
configuration can be a huge task. The point I'm trying to make is the lack
of guidelines, much less standards of configuring services from their
configuration files. Wouldn't it be great if there was a tool developers
could use to configure their programs using standard, human readable, easy
to understand configuration files? Most services only need a plain,
name=3Dvalue type file so there's no reason why most of them are different.
Doing a quick review of the configuration files for very common services
this is what we have:
Service Type
Samba name=3Dvalue with sections [].
Postfix name=3Dvalue.
Apache name value with sections <>.
Amd name=3Dvalue with sections [].
Dovecot name=3Dvalue with sections {}, and subections.
Grub name=3Dvalue with sections name value.
Spamassassin name value.
But even for the same service MTA for example, the configuration is
completely different from one another: sendmail, postfix, qmail.
You guess is right, I don't have "a whole lot of experience developing
configuration systems in software applications", I would say I have some
experience. Apart from being a web developer (mainly), I have experience in
systems administration, specially *nix. Although I think this is not
relevant.
The XML-DTD standard was created to be able to exchange ALL kinds of data,
and it does it very well... except for non-structured binary data. I'm sure
it can be used to describe most, if not all services' configuration.
The question I'd like to ask you, the experts, is: do you think it is worth=
?
I think it is. At least there should be a guide, or recomendations on this.
Thanks again for your attention. Best regards,
Pedro.
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 22:28:19 -0500
> From: "Patrick W. Barnes" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Standard configuration files
> To: [email protected]
> Cc: Pedro Bezunartea L?pez <[email protected]>
>
> On Thursday 08 June 2006 19:02, "Pedro Bezunartea L=F3pez"
> < [email protected]> wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > I've been working with Linux for a few years now and one of the things =
I
> > like most about it is the possibility of configuring everything by
> > modifying readable text files. This is good but if you need to configur=
e
>
> > several services you may ask yoursel: why are all the configuration
> files
> > for all the services so different? couldn't we come out with a standard
> > file format that all services, devices, etc would use? What do you
> think?
> > Here some ideas to begin with:
> > 1. It'd have to be based in XML-dtd. Two important reasons, first it's =
a
> > widely used standard, and second it's readable enough... and I can thin=
k
> of
> > another one: it can describe very complex models.
> > 2. There are already some services that use this kind of configuration
> > files: tomcat... there's a place to start.
> >
> > Any suggestions are welcomed,
> >
>
> First, this thread is off-topic for this list:
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PostIsOffTopic
>
> I'm going to guess you don't have a whole lot of experience developing
> configuration systems in software applications. When developing an
> application, a lot of consideration must go into the configuration system
> to
> be used. The developer will generally make a selection based upon their
> needs, knowledge and available tools. Sometimes, an XML solution might b=
e
>
> the wise choice, but there are also cases where nothing more than a
> flat-file
> with "name=3Dvalue" pairs is necessary, cases where a more powerful datab=
ase
> is
> needed, and cases where some other structured format or scripting languag=
e
>
> might be needed. The number of factors that must be considered is
> astronomical. Making a choice for the wrong reasons can have catastrophi=
c
> consequences. There is no one right way, and there won't be in the
> foreseeable future.
>
> --
> Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes
> [email protected]
>
> http://www.n-man.com/
>
> LinkedIn:
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64
>
> Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance!
> http://rate.affero.net/nman64/
> --
>
------=_Part_90575_9601655.1150142024678
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline
<div><br>Hello Patrick,<br><br>First, sorry for the off-topic, but you didn=
't tell me which mailing list is the right one. I reviewed all of them and =
from the topic of the list: "This mailing list is for discussing confi=
guration tool development." I thought it was the right one.
<br><br>Second, I agree that the task of standarizing the way any software =
get's its configuration can be a huge task. The point I'm trying to make is=
the lack of guidelines, much less standards of configuring services from t=
heir configuration files. Wouldn't it be great if there was a tool develope=
rs could use to configure their programs using standard, human readable, ea=
sy to understand configuration files? Most services only need a plain, name=
=3Dvalue type file so there's no reason why most of them are different.=20
<br><br>Doing a quick review of the configuration files for very common ser=
vices this is what we have:<br style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;=
"><span style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;">Service &n=
bsp; Type</span>
<br style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style=3D"font-famil=
y: courier new,monospace;">Samba name=3Dvalue w=
ith sections [].</span><br style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;"><s=
pan style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;">
Postfix name=3Dvalue.</span><br style=3D"font-family: =
courier new,monospace;"><span style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;"=
>Apache name value with sections <>.</span=
><br style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;">
<span style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;">Amd =
name=3Dvalue with sections [].<br>Dovecot =
name=3Dvalue with sections {}, and subections.<br>Grub =
name=3Dvalue with sections name value.<br>=
Spamassassin name value.
<br><br></span>But even for the same service MTA for example, the configura=
tion is completely different from one another: sendmail, postfix, qmail.<br=
><br>You guess is right, I don't have "a whole lot of experience devel=
oping configuration systems in software applications", I would say I h=
ave some experience. Apart from being a web developer (mainly), I have expe=
rience in systems administration, specially *nix. Although I think this is =
not relevant.=20
<br><br>The XML-DTD standard was created to be able to exchange ALL kinds o=
f data, and it does it very well... except for non-structured binary data. =
I'm sure it can be used to describe most, if not all services' configuratio=
n.
<br><br>The question I'd like to ask you, the experts, is: do you think it =
is worth? I think it is. At least there should be a guide, or recomendation=
s on this.<br><br>Thanks again for your attention. Best regards,<br><br>
Pedro.<br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0p=
t 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 22:28:19 -0500<br>From: "Patrick W. Barnes"=
; <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"retu=
rn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">[email protected]</a>><br>Subje=
ct: Re: Standard configuration files
<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" =
onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
[email protected]</a><br>Cc: Pedro Bezunartea L?pez <<a href=
=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js=
.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">[email protected]</a>><br><br>On Thu=
rsday 08 June 2006 19:02, "Pedro Bezunartea L=F3pez"
<br><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" onclick=
=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br>> Hi!<br>><br>> I've been w=
orking with Linux for a few years now and one of the things I<br>> like =
most about it is the possibility of configuring everything by<br>> modif=
ying readable text files. This is good but if you need to configure
<br>> several services you may ask yoursel: why are all the configuratio=
n files<br>> for all the services so different? couldn't we come out wit=
h a standard<br>> file format that all services, devices, etc would use?=
What do you think?
<br>> Here some ideas to begin with:<br>> 1. It'd have to be based in=
XML-dtd. Two important reasons, first it's a<br>> widely used standard,=
and second it's readable enough... and I can think of<br>> another one:=
it can describe very complex models.
<br>> 2. There are already some services that use this kind of configura=
tion<br>> files: tomcat... there's a place to start.<br>><br>> Any=
suggestions are welcomed,<br>><br><br>First, this thread is off-topic f=
or this list:
<br><br><a href=3D"http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PostIsOffTopic" target=3D"=
_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://fed=
oraproject.org/wiki/PostIsOffTopic</a><br><br>I'm going to guess you don't =
have a whole lot of experience developing
<br>configuration systems in software applications. When develop=
ing an
<br>application, a lot of consideration must go into the configuration syst=
em to<br>be used. The developer will generally make a selection =
based upon their<br>needs, knowledge and available tools. Someti=
mes, an XML solution might be
<br>the wise choice, but there are also cases where nothing more than a fla=
t-file<br>with "name=3Dvalue" pairs is necessary, cases where a m=
ore powerful database is<br>needed, and cases where some other structured f=
ormat or scripting language
<br>might be needed. The number of factors that must be consider=
ed is<br>astronomical. Making a choice for the wrong reasons can=
have catastrophic<br>consequences. There is no one right way, a=
nd there won't be in the<br>
foreseeable future.<br><br>--<br>Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes<br><a=
href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.j=
s.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">[email protected]</a><br><br><a href=3D"ht=
tp://www.n-man.com/" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink=
(window,event,this)">
http://www.n-man.com/</a><br><br>LinkedIn:<br><a href=3D"http://www.linkedi=
n.com/in/nman64" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(win=
dow,event,this)">
http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64</a><br><br>Have I been helpful? &nbs=
p;Rate my assistance!<br><a href=3D"http://rate.affero.net/nman64/" target=
=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http:/=
/rate.affero.net/nman64/
</a><br>--<br></blockquote></div><br>
</div>
------=_Part_90575_9601655.1150142024678--
--===============1168556321==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
--
Fedora-config-list mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-config-list
--===============1168556321==--