Re: Standard configuration files
"Ammon Cranford" <[email protected]> Thu, 15 Jun 2006 11:41:57 -0500
| Newsgroups | gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.configuration |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============0860396681== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_8553_2789303.1150389717218" ------=_Part_8553_2789303.1150389717218 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Pedro, Don't let this stuff get you down! I am learning just like you. The only ignorant question is one that left unasked. Ignorance can be fixed while stupid is forever. Don't stop making suggestiions either! Work with your idea and see if you really have something there. There are multiple paths t= o almost all goals. Do what works for you! That's what Linux is all about anyway each person helping the other and all of us growing in the process. Besides there are several flavors of Linux for those with discriminating tastes! God bless, Al On 6/12/06, Pedro Bezunartea L=F3pez <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hello Patrick, > > First, sorry for the off-topic, but you didn't tell me which mailing list > is the right one. I reviewed all of them and from the topic of the list: > "This mailing list is for discussing configuration tool development." I > thought it was the right one. > > Second, I agree that the task of standarizing the way any software get's > its configuration can be a huge task. The point I'm trying to make is the > lack of guidelines, much less standards of configuring services from thei= r > configuration files. Wouldn't it be great if there was a tool developers > could use to configure their programs using standard, human readable, eas= y > to understand configuration files? Most services only need a plain, > name=3Dvalue type file so there's no reason why most of them are differen= t. > > Doing a quick review of the configuration files for very common services > this is what we have: > Service Type > Samba name=3Dvalue with sections []. > Postfix name=3Dvalue. > Apache name value with sections <>. > Amd name=3Dvalue with sections []. > Dovecot name=3Dvalue with sections {}, and subections. > Grub name=3Dvalue with sections name value. > Spamassassin name value. > > But even for the same service MTA for example, the configuration is > completely different from one another: sendmail, postfix, qmail. > > You guess is right, I don't have "a whole lot of experience developing > configuration systems in software applications", I would say I have some > experience. Apart from being a web developer (mainly), I have experience = in > systems administration, specially *nix. Although I think this is not > relevant. > > The XML-DTD standard was created to be able to exchange ALL kinds of data= , > and it does it very well... except for non-structured binary data. I'm su= re > it can be used to describe most, if not all services' configuration. > > The question I'd like to ask you, the experts, is: do you think it is > worth? I think it is. At least there should be a guide, or recomendations= on > this. > > Thanks again for your attention. Best regards, > > Pedro. > > Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 22:28:19 -0500 > > From: "Patrick W. Barnes" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: Standard configuration files > > To: [email protected] > > Cc: Pedro Bezunartea L?pez <[email protected]> > > > > On Thursday 08 June 2006 19:02, "Pedro Bezunartea L=F3pez" > < [email protected]> wrote: > > Hi! > > > > I've been working with Linux for a few years now and one of the things = I > > like most about it is the possibility of configuring everything by > > modifying readable text files. This is good but if you need to configur= e > > > several services you may ask yoursel: why are all the configuration > files > > for all the services so different? couldn't we come out with a standard > > file format that all services, devices, etc would use? What do you > think? > > Here some ideas to begin with: > > 1. It'd have to be based in XML-dtd. Two important reasons, first it's = a > > widely used standard, and second it's readable enough... and I can thin= k > of > > another one: it can describe very complex models. > > 2. There are already some services that use this kind of configuration > > files: tomcat... there's a place to start. > > > > Any suggestions are welcomed, > > > > First, this thread is off-topic for this list: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PostIsOffTopic > > I'm going to guess you don't have a whole lot of experience developing > configuration systems in software applications. When developing an > application, a lot of consideration must go into the configuration system > to > be used. The developer will generally make a selection based upon their > needs, knowledge and available tools. Sometimes, an XML solution might b= e > > the wise choice, but there are also cases where nothing more than a > flat-file > with "name=3Dvalue" pairs is necessary, cases where a more powerful datab= ase > is > needed, and cases where some other structured format or scripting languag= e > > might be needed. The number of factors that must be considered is > astronomical. Making a choice for the wrong reasons can have catastrophi= c > consequences. There is no one right way, and there won't be in the > foreseeable future. > > -- > Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes > [email protected] > > http://www.n-man.com/ > > LinkedIn: > http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64 > > Have I been helpful? Rate my assistance! > http://rate.affero.net/nman64/ > -- > > > -- > Fedora-config-list mailing list > [email protected] > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-config-list > > ------=_Part_8553_2789303.1150389717218 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Pedro,<br><br>Don't let this stuff get you down! I am learning just l= ike you. The only ignorant question is one that left unasked. I= gnorance can be fixed while stupid is forever. Don't stop making sugg= estiions either! Work with your idea and see if you really have somet= hing there. There are multiple paths to almost all goals. Do what wor= ks for you! That's what Linux is all about anyway each person helping= the other and all of us growing in the process. Besides there are se= veral flavors of Linux for those with discriminating tastes! <br><br>God bless,<br>Al<br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 6/12/06= , <b class=3D"gmail_sendername">Pedro Bezunartea L=F3pez</b> <<a href=3D= "mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:</span><bl= ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204= , 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div><div><br>Hello Patrick,<br><br>First, sorry for the off-topic, but you= didn't tell me which mailing list is the right one. I reviewed all of them= and from the topic of the list: "This mailing list is for discussing = configuration tool development." I thought it was the right one. <br><br>Second, I agree that the task of standarizing the way any software = get's its configuration can be a huge task. The point I'm trying to make is= the lack of guidelines, much less standards of configuring services from t= heir configuration files. Wouldn't it be great if there was a tool develope= rs could use to configure their programs using standard, human readable, ea= sy to understand configuration files? Most services only need a plain, name= =3Dvalue type file so there's no reason why most of them are different.=20 <br><br>Doing a quick review of the configuration files for very common ser= vices this is what we have:<br style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;= "><span style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;">Service &n= bsp; Type</span> <br style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;"><span style=3D"font-famil= y: courier new,monospace;">Samba name=3Dvalue w= ith sections [].</span><br style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;"><s= pan style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;"> Postfix name=3Dvalue.</span><br style=3D"font-family: = courier new,monospace;"><span style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;"= >Apache name value with sections <>.</span= ><br style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;"> <span style=3D"font-family: courier new,monospace;">Amd = name=3Dvalue with sections [].<br>Dovecot = name=3Dvalue with sections {}, and subections.<br>Grub = name=3Dvalue with sections name value.<br>= Spamassassin name value. <br><br></span>But even for the same service MTA for example, the configura= tion is completely different from one another: sendmail, postfix, qmail.<br= ><br>You guess is right, I don't have "a whole lot of experience devel= oping configuration systems in software applications", I would say I h= ave some experience. Apart from being a web developer (mainly), I have expe= rience in systems administration, specially *nix. Although I think this is = not relevant.=20 <br><br>The XML-DTD standard was created to be able to exchange ALL kinds o= f data, and it does it very well... except for non-structured binary data. = I'm sure it can be used to describe most, if not all services' configuratio= n. <br><br>The question I'd like to ask you, the experts, is: do you think it = is worth? I think it is. At least there should be a guide, or recomendation= s on this.<br><br>Thanks again for your attention. Best regards,<br><br> Pedro.<br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote"></span><blockquote class=3D"= gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0p= t 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2006 22:28:19 -0500<br>From: "Patrick W. Barnes"= ; <<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"retu= rn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">[email protected]</a>><br>Subje= ct: Re: Standard configuration files <br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" = onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> [email protected]</a><br>Cc: Pedro Bezunartea L?pez <<a href= =3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js= .OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">[email protected]</a>></blockquote><= /div> <div><span class=3D"e" id=3D"q_10bc9cedc5333a9a_1"><br><br>On Thursday 08 J= une 2006 19:02, "Pedro Bezunartea L=F3pez" <br><<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" onclick= =3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> [email protected]</a>> wrote:<br>> Hi!<br>><br>> I've been w= orking with Linux for a few years now and one of the things I<br>> like = most about it is the possibility of configuring everything by<br>> modif= ying readable text files. This is good but if you need to configure <br>> several services you may ask yoursel: why are all the configuratio= n files<br>> for all the services so different? couldn't we come out wit= h a standard<br>> file format that all services, devices, etc would use?= What do you think? <br>> Here some ideas to begin with:<br>> 1. It'd have to be based in= XML-dtd. Two important reasons, first it's a<br>> widely used standard,= and second it's readable enough... and I can think of<br>> another one:= it can describe very complex models. <br>> 2. There are already some services that use this kind of configura= tion<br>> files: tomcat... there's a place to start.<br>><br>> Any= suggestions are welcomed,<br>><br><br>First, this thread is off-topic f= or this list: <br><br><a href=3D"http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PostIsOffTopic" target=3D"= _blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://fed= oraproject.org/wiki/PostIsOffTopic</a><br><br>I'm going to guess you don't = have a whole lot of experience developing <br>configuration systems in software applications. When develop= ing an <br>application, a lot of consideration must go into the configuration syst= em to<br>be used. The developer will generally make a selection = based upon their<br>needs, knowledge and available tools. Someti= mes, an XML solution might be <br>the wise choice, but there are also cases where nothing more than a fla= t-file<br>with "name=3Dvalue" pairs is necessary, cases where a m= ore powerful database is<br>needed, and cases where some other structured f= ormat or scripting language <br>might be needed. The number of factors that must be consider= ed is<br>astronomical. Making a choice for the wrong reasons can= have catastrophic<br>consequences. There is no one right way, a= nd there won't be in the<br> foreseeable future.<br><br>--<br>Patrick "The N-Man" Barnes<br><a= href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.j= s.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">[email protected]</a><br><br><a href=3D"ht= tp://www.n-man.com/" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink= (window,event,this)"> http://www.n-man.com/</a><br><br>LinkedIn:<br><a href=3D"http://www.linkedi= n.com/in/nman64" target=3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(win= dow,event,this)"> http://www.linkedin.com/in/nman64</a><br><br>Have I been helpful? &nbs= p;Rate my assistance!<br><a href=3D"http://rate.affero.net/nman64/" target= =3D"_blank" onclick=3D"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http:/= /rate.affero.net/nman64/ </a><br>--<br></span></div><div></div><br> </div> </div><br>--<br>Fedora-config-list mailing list<br><a onclick=3D"return top= .js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href=3D"mailto:Fedora-config-list@redha= t.com">[email protected]</a><br><a onclick=3D"return top.js.Ope= nExtLink(window,event,this)" href=3D"https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinf= o/fedora-config-list" target=3D"_blank"> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-config-list</a><br><br></blo= ckquote></div><br> ------=_Part_8553_2789303.1150389717218-- --===============0860396681== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline -- Fedora-config-list mailing list [email protected] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-config-list --===============0860396681==--