Re: evolution and hebrew

םולש

On Thu, Sep 29, 2005 at 11:31:31PM +0100, Ron Artstein wrote:
> Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> 
> >יכולים לקבל בדואר תוכן בקידוד ISO-8859-8. בהחלט ייתכן שהוא יהיה עברית
> > וויזואלית. לא צריך להיות יותר מדי חכמים כאן.
> 
> Yes, sending Hebrew characters in visual order is possible. The point 
> was that at least for email sent as Content-Type: text/plain, receiving 
> mail in visual order is much less common than receiving mail in logical 
> order which is labeled incorrectly with charset=ISO-8859-8. If the 
> client's goal is to display messages in a way that's most useful for the 
> user, it should treat this header as indicating logical order, despite 
> the standard (or do something smarter, see below).
> 
> As for email sent as Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-8, I
> simply don't know whether it's more common to receive visual or logical
> order, what the magnitudes are, and whether there's a difference between
> mail sent as attachments or as part of the message. So I don't know what
> would be the desired client behavior.

Again:

There is exactly one buggy mailer that sends ISO-8859-8 as logical
Hebrew: Evolution. Fix that.

There is also the "Hebrew support" in pine that can send Visual Hebrew
emails.

I see no point in bending an exstablished standard and over-guessing
just because of one buggy (and not very common) client. This will only
allow others to follow.

> 
> For the record, in Mozilla 1.6, Tzafrir's attachment (Content-Type:
> text/html; charset=ISO-8859-8) is displayed in logical order inline, and
> in visual order in the browser window. So it appears that Mozilla
> decided to treat *all* charset=ISO-8859-8 declarations as erroneous for
> the purpose of displaying mail, without further analysis.

A bug, IMHO

> 
> Incidentally, since we're in the business of (talking about) correcting
> bad headers, I believe we can do much better than debate whether a
> particular header should be interpreted as indicating visual or logical
> order. I haven't tried it myself, but I bet a simple bigram analysis can
> determine with a very high degree of confidence whether a string of
> Hebrew characters is in visual or logical order. This is what a really
> useful client should do -- look at the text itself and figure out what
> the order is.

Error-prone over-guessing.

מה כיוון ההודעה הזו?

> 
> -Ron.
> 
> P.S. I changed the language of this thread to English because I believe
> the Ivrix list is also read by developers who do not speak Hebrew. My
> apologies to the Hebrew speakers who are less comfortable with English.
> 
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