Re: update ibus to 1.5.1

At Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:51:05 +0900,
Takao Fujiwara wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Takashi Iwai <[email protected]> wrote:
> > At Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:15:27 +0900,
> > Takao Fujiwara wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Hillwood Yang <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > 在 2013-01-29二的 08:30 +0100，Takashi Iwai写道：
> >> >> At Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:54:20 +0800,
> >> >> Hillwood Yang wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > hello everyone:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 1.5.x stable version of ibus , ibus-pinyin , ibus-anthy and ibus-table
> >> >> > have been released for a long time, and other ibus input engine also can
> >> >> > work with ibus 1.5.1 ，I think we could update them in factory.
> >> >>
> >> >> Well, now is a bad timing just before 12.3 release.  We shouldn't
> >> >> change the devel project too much until 12.3 is released and FACTORY
> >> >> is opened again.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Ibus 1.4.2 has been unfit to work in gnome 3.6. Gnome 3.6 can block
> >> >> > ibus's tray icon , we can't view which engine we use current from tray
> >> >> > icon in ibus 1.4.2 . But in ibus 1.5.x , we can view it form the fly box
> >> >> > while switching engine if disable ibus build for gnome-settings-daemon ,
> >> >> > or view it form gnome's language tray icon if enable ibus build for
> >> >> > gnome-settings-daemon.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > What do you think?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Request#150248:
> >> >> > https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/150248
> >> >>
> >> >> The biggest problems would be the migration and the stability.
> >> >> When I tested ibus 1.5 shortly ago, both failed too badly.
> >> >> Upgrading to M17N:Devel from a system running with ibus-1.4.x
> >> >> (mozc, anthy and m17n) triggered frequent segfaults, even blocked the
> >> >> toggle of IM (likely due to key assignment / policy changes) -- in
> >> >> short, it was just useless on that system.
> >> >
> >> > I found the problem about blocked the toggle of IM only in openSUSE 12.3
> >> > (M2 and beta) after force enabled ibus-gjs 3.4.1. I don't know whether
> >> > you enabled ibus-gjs too. If This is the reason about this problem , we
> >> > can ignore it, end users should not install ibus-gjs 3.4.1 from
> >> > M17N:Devel, and it seems that openSUSE don't supply technical support
> >> > for third party repertories , especially test repertories. ibus-gjs also
> >> > will not included in openSUSE 12.3 ， it only word in GNOME 3.4.x.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure what is the toggle problem.
> >> ibus-gjs works with gnome-shell 3.4 and ibus-gjs is no longer needed
> >> in gnome-shell 3.6 since ibus was integrated.
> >>
> >> And right, we have changed the behavior of trigger keys in ibus 1.5.
> >
> > I tested right now with the latest 12.3 (FACTORY) and M17N:Devel.
> > My desktop is XFCE.
> >
> > The biggest problem is that now ibus itself manages the keyboard
> > layout.  This really sucks, especially when you have own modified
> > keyboard layout.
> >
> > Since now IM activation/deactivation is handled like the change of
> > different IMs (e.g. "English US keyboard" and "Mozc"), if you haven't
> > registered the proper IMs beforehand, you'll be lost.  This
> > incompatibility is confusing and it took long time to figure out for
> > me.
> >
> > I know that you can activate/deactivate IM even in each method
> > (e.g. via Henkan key), too.  But, for example, Mozc doesn't define
> > such key bindings for non-Japanese keyboards properly.  Thus if you
> > have only US keyboard, you can't manage it at all.
> 
> I suppose JP keyboard and Japanese IMEs (configured as JP keyboard)
> instead of US keyboard in case you use Henkan key.

No, I do _not_ use Henkan key.  As default, Mozc provides the key
bindings only for Japanese key layouts.  The activation/deactivation
is also included in Mozc's key action, but only Henkan & co are
assigned, nothing that you can input from non-Japanese key layout.

> ibus-setup 1.5 can configure the trigger keys but it's not for each
> IME but the global setting and I think it would be almost same with
> 1.4.

Maybe that's the problem.  The global trigger key is gone completely.

On 1.4, you could choose "Turn off input method" when you left-click
the tray icon while IME is running.  And in the global preference
dialog, you had "Enable" or "disable" key binding.

On 1.5, you can't choose "turn off input method" in tray menu, and
there is no "enable" or "disable" key setup in the global preference
dialog.  Only "Next input method" as before.

In my case, I used Ctrl+Space for toggling the IM.  This was assigned
to "next input method" as default on 1.5.

So... is really the deactivation of IBUS itself still supported on
1.5?  Or you have to switch XKB (or a key layout) IME and Mozc/Anthy
whatever, for changing the Latin and the CJK inputs?


> > Maybe because of that reason (policy change about keyboard layout
> > management), the IM activation state isn't shown in the tray icon.
> > So if you activate/deactivate IM in Mozc, you can't see whether it's
> > in preedit mode or not.
> 
> Probably I don't understand the problem. ibus panel icon shows the
> current engine.

Yes.  But you can't turn off IM.  In the past, when you "deactivated"
IM, the try icon changed to a gray keyboard icon.  Now Mozc has a
"deactivated" state (maybe locally in IME), but it doesn't change the
icon state.


> > Also maybe because of the same reason, the IM is always activated at
> > the login time.  When I choose Mozc as default, it starts in the
> > preedit mode for typing Japanese after login.  I have to switch back
> > to English USA layout or turn off IM manually.
> 
> Yes, it's good the default is an ibus keymap engine but not input method engine.
> 
> >
> > There is a global "go to next IM" key binding, yes.  But if you have
> > more than two IMs, switching Latin and Japanese doesn't work like
> > before.
> >
> > Again, the keyboard layout override is confusing when you already have
> > a modified layout.  This can be a big reason I'll stop using the new
> > ibus from now on.  The keyboard layout isn't a job of IM.
> 
> Currently ibus suppose the XKB layout and variant per engine and the
> global XKB options.
> Now ibus-anthy provides the customization of the keymap too.

This brings lots of confusion...  The key layout is changed out of
sudden when you use a different IME.  Then, if you want to achieve the
same layout, you have to customize the layout of each IME.

(Some IME did it in the past, too, but not that chaos all the time.
 At least you could turn off IM, and you got the normal layout.)


thanks,

Takashi

> > One good news is that I haven't see segfaults I had hit ago :)
> >
> > So... my impression is that it's still in rough edge.
> > And the new keyboard handling is really confusing for the old user
> > like me.  Maybe it'd be good for people who only use two IMs (one
> > Latin and one native IM).
> >
> >
> > thanks,
> >
> > Takashi
> >
> >
> >> >
> >> > Ibus-anthy and ibus-m17n always work fine with ibus 1.5 in my three PCs
> >> > (openSUSE 12.2) and a VirtualBox system (opensuse 12.3). I can't
> >> > reappear the problem about ibus-anthy and ibus-m17n which you mentioned.
> >> >
> >> > Can you tell me steps you how to reappear these problems which you
> >> > mentioned ? I think you should test at other system , at least 12.3.
> >> >
> >> > To Huang Peng , Takao Fujiwara and Ma Xiaojun: Can you give us some
> >> > help ?
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Maybe we should test the upgrade paths, at least 12.3, before actually
> >> >> upgrading the stuff in M17N project: install 12.3-beta1 or latest one
> >> >> on a VM (GNOME, KDE, other DE), upgrade to M17N:Devel, and see whether
> >> >> any regression happens.
> >> >
> >> > At the more that half a year, I have tested the upgrade paths (oss to
> >> > M17N:Devel and M17N to M17N:Devel) at 12.2&12.3(M1,M2 and Beta) On
> >> > GNOME, KDE and Mate, I didn't find any serious problem, only some minor
> >> > bugs. Some of them have been fixed. If you really think there are some
> >> > serious problems, can you please report them to upstream: Huang Peng ,
> >> > Takao Fujiwara and Ma Xiaojun ?
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> thanks,
> >> >>
> >> >> Takashi
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> 
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