Re: update ibus to 1.5.1

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Takashi Iwai <[email protected]> wrote:
> At Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:51:05 +0900,
> Takao Fujiwara wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 2:51 AM, Takashi Iwai <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > At Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:15:27 +0900,
>> > Takao Fujiwara wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Hillwood Yang <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> > 在 2013-01-29二的 08:30 +0100，Takashi Iwai写道：
>> >> >> At Tue, 29 Jan 2013 14:54:20 +0800,
>> >> >> Hillwood Yang wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > hello everyone:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > 1.5.x stable version of ibus , ibus-pinyin , ibus-anthy and ibus-table
>> >> >> > have been released for a long time, and other ibus input engine also can
>> >> >> > work with ibus 1.5.1 ，I think we could update them in factory.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Well, now is a bad timing just before 12.3 release.  We shouldn't
>> >> >> change the devel project too much until 12.3 is released and FACTORY
>> >> >> is opened again.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Ibus 1.4.2 has been unfit to work in gnome 3.6. Gnome 3.6 can block
>> >> >> > ibus's tray icon , we can't view which engine we use current from tray
>> >> >> > icon in ibus 1.4.2 . But in ibus 1.5.x , we can view it form the fly box
>> >> >> > while switching engine if disable ibus build for gnome-settings-daemon ,
>> >> >> > or view it form gnome's language tray icon if enable ibus build for
>> >> >> > gnome-settings-daemon.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > What do you think?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Request#150248:
>> >> >> > https://build.opensuse.org/request/show/150248
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The biggest problems would be the migration and the stability.
>> >> >> When I tested ibus 1.5 shortly ago, both failed too badly.
>> >> >> Upgrading to M17N:Devel from a system running with ibus-1.4.x
>> >> >> (mozc, anthy and m17n) triggered frequent segfaults, even blocked the
>> >> >> toggle of IM (likely due to key assignment / policy changes) -- in
>> >> >> short, it was just useless on that system.
>> >> >
>> >> > I found the problem about blocked the toggle of IM only in openSUSE 12.3
>> >> > (M2 and beta) after force enabled ibus-gjs 3.4.1. I don't know whether
>> >> > you enabled ibus-gjs too. If This is the reason about this problem , we
>> >> > can ignore it, end users should not install ibus-gjs 3.4.1 from
>> >> > M17N:Devel, and it seems that openSUSE don't supply technical support
>> >> > for third party repertories , especially test repertories. ibus-gjs also
>> >> > will not included in openSUSE 12.3 ， it only word in GNOME 3.4.x.
>> >>
>> >> I'm not sure what is the toggle problem.
>> >> ibus-gjs works with gnome-shell 3.4 and ibus-gjs is no longer needed
>> >> in gnome-shell 3.6 since ibus was integrated.
>> >>
>> >> And right, we have changed the behavior of trigger keys in ibus 1.5.
>> >
>> > I tested right now with the latest 12.3 (FACTORY) and M17N:Devel.
>> > My desktop is XFCE.
>> >
>> > The biggest problem is that now ibus itself manages the keyboard
>> > layout.  This really sucks, especially when you have own modified
>> > keyboard layout.
>> >
>> > Since now IM activation/deactivation is handled like the change of
>> > different IMs (e.g. "English US keyboard" and "Mozc"), if you haven't
>> > registered the proper IMs beforehand, you'll be lost.  This
>> > incompatibility is confusing and it took long time to figure out for
>> > me.
>> >
>> > I know that you can activate/deactivate IM even in each method
>> > (e.g. via Henkan key), too.  But, for example, Mozc doesn't define
>> > such key bindings for non-Japanese keyboards properly.  Thus if you
>> > have only US keyboard, you can't manage it at all.
>>
>> I suppose JP keyboard and Japanese IMEs (configured as JP keyboard)
>> instead of US keyboard in case you use Henkan key.
>
> No, I do _not_ use Henkan key.  As default, Mozc provides the key
> bindings only for Japanese key layouts.  The activation/deactivation
> is also included in Mozc's key action, but only Henkan & co are
> assigned, nothing that you can input from non-Japanese key layout.
>
>> ibus-setup 1.5 can configure the trigger keys but it's not for each
>> IME but the global setting and I think it would be almost same with
>> 1.4.
>
> Maybe that's the problem.  The global trigger key is gone completely.
>
> On 1.4, you could choose "Turn off input method" when you left-click
> the tray icon while IME is running.  And in the global preference
> dialog, you had "Enable" or "disable" key binding.
>
> On 1.5, you can't choose "turn off input method" in tray menu, and
> there is no "enable" or "disable" key setup in the global preference
> dialog.  Only "Next input method" as before.
>
> In my case, I used Ctrl+Space for toggling the IM.  This was assigned
> to "next input method" as default on 1.5.
>
> So... is really the deactivation of IBUS itself still supported on
> 1.5?  Or you have to switch XKB (or a key layout) IME and Mozc/Anthy
> whatever, for changing the Latin and the CJK inputs?

Thanks for the explanation. Right, ibus 1.5 does not support
activation/deactivation since ibus switches input method and keymap
engines so that users manage those under the same UI:
https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Guidelines/SystemStatus/InputLanguage
I'm thinking your issue might be resolved by engine specific trigger
keys besides the global trigger keys but we don't implement it yet.
Probably I think the feature is requested in case more than three ibus
engines are configured. If one keymap engine and one input method
engine are configured, Control+space could switches each other.

>
>
>> > Maybe because of that reason (policy change about keyboard layout
>> > management), the IM activation state isn't shown in the tray icon.
>> > So if you activate/deactivate IM in Mozc, you can't see whether it's
>> > in preedit mode or not.
>>
>> Probably I don't understand the problem. ibus panel icon shows the
>> current engine.
>
> Yes.  But you can't turn off IM.  In the past, when you "deactivated"
> IM, the try icon changed to a gray keyboard icon.  Now Mozc has a
> "deactivated" state (maybe locally in IME), but it doesn't change the
> icon state.
>
>
>> > Also maybe because of the same reason, the IM is always activated at
>> > the login time.  When I choose Mozc as default, it starts in the
>> > preedit mode for typing Japanese after login.  I have to switch back
>> > to English USA layout or turn off IM manually.
>>
>> Yes, it's good the default is an ibus keymap engine but not input method engine.
>>
>> >
>> > There is a global "go to next IM" key binding, yes.  But if you have
>> > more than two IMs, switching Latin and Japanese doesn't work like
>> > before.
>> >
>> > Again, the keyboard layout override is confusing when you already have
>> > a modified layout.  This can be a big reason I'll stop using the new
>> > ibus from now on.  The keyboard layout isn't a job of IM.
>>
>> Currently ibus suppose the XKB layout and variant per engine and the
>> global XKB options.
>> Now ibus-anthy provides the customization of the keymap too.
>
> This brings lots of confusion...  The key layout is changed out of
> sudden when you use a different IME.  Then, if you want to achieve the
> same layout, you have to customize the layout of each IME.

I also think to support the use-system-keyboard in ibus 1.4 but I
think it will be implemented after GSettingsList is implemented in
GNOME 3.8.
So currently each IME needs to be customized until ibus support it.

>
> (Some IME did it in the past, too, but not that chaos all the time.
>  At least you could turn off IM, and you got the normal layout.)
>
>
> thanks,
>
> Takashi
>
>> > One good news is that I haven't see segfaults I had hit ago :)
>> >
>> > So... my impression is that it's still in rough edge.
>> > And the new keyboard handling is really confusing for the old user
>> > like me.  Maybe it'd be good for people who only use two IMs (one
>> > Latin and one native IM).
>> >
>> >
>> > thanks,
>> >
>> > Takashi
>> >
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Ibus-anthy and ibus-m17n always work fine with ibus 1.5 in my three PCs
>> >> > (openSUSE 12.2) and a VirtualBox system (opensuse 12.3). I can't
>> >> > reappear the problem about ibus-anthy and ibus-m17n which you mentioned.
>> >> >
>> >> > Can you tell me steps you how to reappear these problems which you
>> >> > mentioned ? I think you should test at other system , at least 12.3.
>> >> >
>> >> > To Huang Peng , Takao Fujiwara and Ma Xiaojun: Can you give us some
>> >> > help ?
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Maybe we should test the upgrade paths, at least 12.3, before actually
>> >> >> upgrading the stuff in M17N project: install 12.3-beta1 or latest one
>> >> >> on a VM (GNOME, KDE, other DE), upgrade to M17N:Devel, and see whether
>> >> >> any regression happens.
>> >> >
>> >> > At the more that half a year, I have tested the upgrade paths (oss to
>> >> > M17N:Devel and M17N to M17N:Devel) at 12.2&12.3(M1,M2 and Beta) On
>> >> > GNOME, KDE and Mate, I didn't find any serious problem, only some minor
>> >> > bugs. Some of them have been fixed. If you really think there are some
>> >> > serious problems, can you please report them to upstream: Huang Peng ,
>> >> > Takao Fujiwara and Ma Xiaojun ?
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> thanks,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Takashi
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>>
-- 
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
To contact the owner, e-mail: [email protected]