Re: I don't know who's leaking this stuff...

"Chris Wright"

| >> I oppose the action of Guantanamo Bay, because that was just like
| >> throwing a net over a group of people and saying "Gotcha".
| >> Not all of them are guilty, and in my mind, if I were one of them being
| >> held, I'd be screaming blue murder.
| >
| >    But that is exactly what they're doing with the phone records,
| > casting a big net.
| >
| >> And if they couldn't be trusted or
| >> seen to be competent in handling the process, then yes, stop it until
| >> such time it can be controlled.
| >
| >    You see, we can't trust our government to be competent in handling
| > the process, there has been abuse in the past. That is why we are
| > against it. Perhaps you should google: "COINTELPRO"
| >
|
| To both Charles and yourself...
|
| I don't have any objection to your reasons for not letting them have
| access and I share your concerns with the possible misuse of the list.
|
| Charles is saying that its becoming too big brother which again relates
| to the potential misuse of it.
|
| You are saying that it 'may' and in all probability 'is' against the
| constitution (unless some cleave government wig is capable of proving
| its not by the use of massive amounts of mumbo jumbo).
|
| Neither of those two points can I dispute.
| And nor should I wipe them from my concerns and dismiss them (and nor do
I).
|
| All I am saying is that here and now, there is a threat.  A major
| threat.  Since I have nothing to hide, I don't care who is monitoring my
| calls if there is a chance that they will catch some criminal in the
| act.  I consider the chance of them misusing the information less than
| the chance of them catching criminals in the act.

Nothing to hide?  A new product or service and it's related business plan.
A bit of gaming the tax system (not illegal but not something you want out
in the street).  Depending on who you work for chasing women or drinking a
beer can get you fired (not illegal necessarily but has been know to happen)

This administration and it's supporters have shown a propensity to do such
acts as they see themselves as the Guardians of God's true intentions. (BTW
the abuse of intelligence power is not unique to this government and is not
limited to the top)

| But, if there was every such a time that the system was abused and
| misuse became apparent. I'd be standing next to the both of you calling
| for the whole damn thing to be shut down or whatever.

By then it will be too late (if it's not already).  Recall what happened
during the McCarthy Era?  Think about the effort necessary to put tooth
paste back in the tube.

| Its sad that we even have to consider such actions in this age.
| I have 3 kids of 6,10 and 11 who I want to be able to grow up and I
| would consider anything that helps protect them even at the loss of some
| of my privacy/rights.

If you really wanted to protect your kids you would lock them in a cell 24/7
and not let them play with anything even potentially hazardous.

What you propose is protecting them from freedom.

Better to give them the tools to protect themselves and let them grow up to
make their own decisions and mistakes.

BTW the government had the information to protect us BEFORE 911 and did not
make use of it.  Likewise if the system put in place to protect the airlines
was doing it's job perhaps they would not have boarded the aircraft.

As to the event not being anticipated I believe there was a fictional novel
by Tom Clancy about a lone terrorist who destroyed the Capital with a fully
fueled 747.

As for me and mine I'm more concerned about the real and eminent risk in our
community.  And to that end I'm ever vigilant.  I'm from New Orleans and
have decades of experience with hurricanes.  Our family took all practical
precautions to get out of harms way yet I lost two close family members and
a few from my extended family as a result of that storm.  BTW the government
had a very clear warning that it was coming yet still screwed the pouch in
the handling of the matter.

Recall the old saw "Trust me I'm from the government and I'm here to
help/protect you"

I'm a bit P.O.ed right now as I've been fighting for 4 months to get this
Medicare Drug program set up for my family. Despite my being in the system
for more than 60 years the system:
a) doesn't know my name
b) doesn't know where I live
c) doesn't know my wife's name a SSN
d) doesn't know my phone number

Information all of which was contained in the letter they sent me (at the
address the system cannot ID) containing instructions, user name and pass
words to access the system.

If they can't find me when I'm out in the open do you really expect them to
find a terrorist who's doing his best to stay hidden?

Recall the Cheech and Chong movie "Born in East LA" and how he taught a
bunch of Asians to pretend to be Latinos to get across the border?   With a
bit of a shave and some other minor changes do you really think the National
Guard will be able to stop 15-20 Al Quida troops from crossing the border?