Re: [Bulk] Re: Death penalty

On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 11:36 AM, Karl <[email protected]> wrote:
> The fact is that the death penalty is well known as a possible
> consequence whether you agree it is moral or not.  It is also arguable a
> realistic consequence.

Not really. There are, what, tens of thousands of murders in the US
every year? How many get death?

**I said possible for that reason.  My point is that no one on death row should
be acting surprised.

**and before you say it, yes I am assuming that those convicted are actually
guilty.  Like Mike, I am addressing this from the standpoint of the person who
is clearly guilty.

**and if anything the fact that so many cases do NOT go to death row is really
one of the defenses of the death penalty as Mike and I are presenting it:  Used
solely for the most heinous crimes.

> **hmm...seems to me that by preferring life in prison to the death penalty,
you
> are condemning the murderer to a life of buggery (using that analogy)...

Perhaps. Since I'm not discussing what the criminal *deserves* (death
or life) I'm not seeking to make their outcomes more pleasant or
anything.

**fair enough

> I don't see what's squishy. I didn't say my views are shared by a
> majority of society.
>
> **No, that is true.  But you were just speaking *for society* a moment ago, so
> shouldn't you be clear about what society actually wants?

Oh my, me speaking "for society"? The misunderstandings that happen on
this list. What an ego you must think I have. I was just pointing out
my frame of reference, it not being what the criminal deserves, but
what society should do in reaction. That's all.

**I never meant it personal so don’t take it as a slight.  If you invoke what
society should do, however, you are responsible for explaining why you think
society should do anything one way or another.

**I would argue then that society has an obvious investment in deterring and
punishing crime and as such employs a justice system to administer that fairly.
For the most part it does, through the use of laws, police, prosecutors, judges,
juries and appeals processes.  When one element fails, the others can step in to
right the wrong.  Heck, many here are advocates for Jury Nullification, which is
a clear diversion of justice (OJ comes to mind) which despite OJ like
miscarriages, it is also a powerful took to promote fairness and justice.

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