Re: Armond White

I gotta disagree with Jim Carey being able to pull it off.  The magic of Ledger 
was that he was believable in that role, Carey is incapable of pulling that 
off.  I suppose his Riddler was supposed to be a bit campy but all Carey would 
be able to inspire doing the Joker would have bee laughter.

And I like Nicholson but his joker was Jack Nicholson with makeup.  

While I remember being entertained, for the most part, by the earlier batman 
movies, Nolan made me forget them wiht both of his Batman efforts.  They are THE 
Batman movies as far as I'm concerned.

Mike F.   




________________________________
From: Karl <[email protected]>
To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 4:44:30 PM
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White


I would have to think about it.  I think Carey could have but he was tainted by 
his Riddler role in the earlier movies.  I am sure more than just a short few 
could have, but that is a silly effort really, the role is so iconic now that no 
one would pass muster.
 
And I really disagree at least somewhat, Iam not convinced that the role would 
have been Oscar worthy without his death.
 
The thing is that Nicholson had to play a straight villain first, then 
transition to the role via the accident, whereas Ledger had the transmuted role 
from the start.  Nicholson had in my opinion a harder part on some ways.  And 
yea, he was Nicholson, that’s hard to get past.  But he really played the part 
well.
 
The two roles are different enough and the overall movies different enough that 
comparisons are tough.
 
So what is your take on Hathaway being tagged for catwomen in the next one?
 
From:[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Johne Cook
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:19 PM
To: DADL (off topic)
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
 
Holy moly. I thought Ledger's take was much deeper, much more interesting. 
Nicholson was chewing scenery, and I never could get past it was Jack Nicholson. 
Ledger vanished into the role and made The Joker a multi-faceted, complex 
character. How much of that was the script, how much was the direction, how much 
was Ledger himself? Let's put it this way - name another actor you think who 
could have plugged into that same role and have had the same impact. Imo, it 
would be a very short list. Ledger, in my mind, eclipsed the part and really 
became the character. Setting aside his tragic death after the film wrapped but 
before it hit theaters, I think he would have won his Oscar for that role in 
that picture regardless of the competition.

Johne Cook
| http://raygunrevival.com | http://authorculture.blogspot.com |


On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Karl <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes, that freaking rasp just drives me nutty.
 
I dunno, my relationship with batman is forever tainted, I think, by my early 
indoctrination to the tv series and to the cartoons.
 
J
 
But the mid movies were also interesting.  Ledgers joker was certainly well 
played, but nowhere as menacing to me as Nicholson.
 
I dunno, they all spin in such different directions, it is hard to say what I 
favor.
 
From:[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Mike Findlay
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:50 PM

To: DADL (off topic)
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
 
No problem but thanks.
 
One of the things that got pointed out to me about Bale's performance was the 
ridiculous raspy voice.  I can watch the movie now without fixating on that.  He 
used the same voice in the last Terminator movie, (which was unfairly underrated 
IMO).  

 
I still like the Dark Knight though, but I thought Batman Begins was overall a 
better movie.  

 
Mike F. 
 

________________________________

From:Karl <[email protected]>
To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 3:42:43 PM
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
Sorry if you thought that directed to you.
 
Honestly I directed that more to the overboard swooning I saw immediately after 
his death and such.
 
It was well played, but yea, it was over the top, though I thought Bale’s 
performance was more so.
 
From:[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Mike Findlay
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:20 PM
To: DADL (off topic)
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
 
I didn't say it was a difficult performance, I've always maintained that acting 
crazed is among the easiest acting tasks there are.  But I still think it was a 
wonderful performance, even if over the top.  It was cool to watch someone 
having an absolute blast sinking their teeth into that role.  

 
And I'm not swooning over it because of his death.
 
Mike F.   
 

________________________________

From:Karl <[email protected]>
To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 3:12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
Ok I guess I am in a different place on the Dark Knight.
 
I thought Ledger was ok, but personally I think it was just his death that makes 
people swoon over it.
 
It wasn’t that dark or profound at all, I have seen many other actors play 
similar roles equally well.
 
In the end I was glad I watched the dark knight, but frankly I still think it 
and batman begins are overrated.
 
 
From:[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Mike Findlay
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:09 PM
To: DADL (off topic)
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
 
I liked The Dark Knight but I've also heard enough critcism of it to come to 
terms that without Heath Ledger's Joker the film wouldn't be much above 
average.  That being said I don't thihnk I agree with White, (haven't read the 
full review yet), but you have to admit he has a point with this: .
 
 
."...because it <The Dark Knight> doesn’t require viewers to feel those 
discredited virtues, “hope” and “faith.” Like Hellboy II, this kind of sci-fi or 
horror or comics-whatever obviates morality. It trashes belief systems and 
encourages childish fantasies of absurd macho potency and fabulous 
grotesqueries. "
 
 
But I'm with you on Black Dahlia.  I don't think it is comparable at all to The 
Dark Knight and to bring it up as such pokes big holes in any critique of The 
Dark Knight.  And it was at best a mildly entertaining, yet completely 
forgetable movie.
 
Mike F. 

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