Re: Armond White

I gotta disagree with Jim Carey being able to pull it off.  The magic of Ledger was that he was believable in that role, Carey is incapable of pulling that off.  I suppose his Riddler was supposed to be a bit campy but all Carey would be able to inspire doing the Joker would have bee laughter.
 
**I disagree.  Carey has the qualities needed. The intensity and the darkness.  The demented craziness….IF you could convince him to tone his goofiness down slightly.   Carey has too much comedian in him somedays.  I would have been curious to see what Robin Williams could have done (I heard somewhere he was a contender). 
 
**part of the problem is that we now define the role as Ledger’s, so all comparisons hinge on that.  This happens a lot in my opinion in this type of discussion.  I will concede that Ledger made the role very unique.   But another actor with a different spin might have taken the role another direction and made that iconic in its own way.  Who is to say.
 
**That said, the role ended up almost cartoonish to me, and that in its own way was distracting.  Wait.  Cartoonish in a movie about a cartoon?  Never mind.
 
 
And I like Nicholson but his joker was Jack Nicholson with makeup.  
 
**and that is bad why?  Nicholson is an awesome actor and well suited for overly intense characters.
 
While I remember being entertained, for the most part, by the earlier batman movies, Nolan made me forget them wiht both of his Batman efforts.  They are THE Batman movies as far as I'm concerned.
 
***Well, I guess these movies have taken too much of my childhood away from me then.  :-)
 
***one of my minor gripes is that the Nolan and Burton movies all made Gothem a dark surreal place.  The stupid TV series at least used a more natural city back drop.  
 
 
  _____  

From: Karl <[email protected]>
To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 4:44:30 PM
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
I would have to think about it.  I think Carey could have but he was tainted by his Riddler role in the earlier movies.  I am sure more than just a short few could have, but that is a silly effort really, the role is so iconic now that no one would pass muster.
 
And I really disagree at least somewhat, Iam not convinced that the role would have been Oscar worthy without his death.
 
The thing is that Nicholson had to play a straight villain first, then transition to the role via the accident, whereas Ledger had the transmuted role from the start.  Nicholson had in my opinion a harder part on some ways.  And yea, he was Nicholson, that’s hard to get past.  But he really played the part well.
 
The two roles are different enough and the overall movies different enough that comparisons are tough.
 
So what is your take on Hathaway being tagged for catwomen in the next one?
 
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johne Cook
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:19 PM
To: DADL (off topic)
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
 
Holy moly. I thought Ledger's take was much deeper, much more interesting. Nicholson was chewing scenery, and I never could get past it was Jack Nicholson. Ledger vanished into the role and made The Joker a multi-faceted, complex character. How much of that was the script, how much was the direction, how much was Ledger himself? Let's put it this way - name another actor you think who could have plugged into that same role and have had the same impact. Imo, it would be a very short list. Ledger, in my mind, eclipsed the part and really became the character. Setting aside his tragic death after the film wrapped but before it hit theaters, I think he would have won his Oscar for that role in that picture regardless of the competition.

Johne Cook
| http://raygunrevival.com <http://raygunrevival.com/>  | http://authorculture.blogspot.com <http://authorculture.blogspot.com/>  |
On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Karl <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes, that freaking rasp just drives me nutty.
 
I dunno, my relationship with batman is forever tainted, I think, by my early indoctrination to the tv series and to the cartoons.
 
:-)
 
But the mid movies were also interesting.  Ledgers joker was certainly well played, but nowhere as menacing to me as Nicholson.
 
I dunno, they all spin in such different directions, it is hard to say what I favor.
 
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Findlay
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:50 PM

To: DADL (off topic)
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
 
No problem but thanks.
 
One of the things that got pointed out to me about Bale's performance was the ridiculous raspy voice.  I can watch the movie now without fixating on that.  He used the same voice in the last Terminator movie, (which was unfairly underrated IMO).  
 
I still like the Dark Knight though, but I thought Batman Begins was overall a better movie.  
 
Mike F. 
 
  _____  

From: Karl <[email protected]>
To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 3:42:43 PM
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
Sorry if you thought that directed to you.
 
Honestly I directed that more to the overboard swooning I saw immediately after his death and such.
 
It was well played, but yea, it was over the top, though I thought Bale’s performance was more so.
 
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Findlay
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:20 PM
To: DADL (off topic)
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
 
I didn't say it was a difficult performance, I've always maintained that acting crazed is among the easiest acting tasks there are.  But I still think it was a wonderful performance, even if over the top.  It was cool to watch someone having an absolute blast sinking their teeth into that role.  
 
And I'm not swooning over it because of his death.
 
Mike F.   
 
  _____  

From: Karl <[email protected]>
To: DADL (off topic) <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 3:12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
Ok I guess I am in a different place on the Dark Knight.
 
I thought Ledger was ok, but personally I think it was just his death that makes people swoon over it.
 
It wasn’t that dark or profound at all, I have seen many other actors play similar roles equally well.
 
In the end I was glad I watched the dark knight, but frankly I still think it and batman begins are overrated.
 
 
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mike Findlay
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:09 PM
To: DADL (off topic)
Subject: Re: [DADL-OT] Armond White
 
I liked The Dark Knight but I've also heard enough critcism of it to come to terms that without Heath Ledger's Joker the film wouldn't be much above average.  That being said I don't thihnk I agree with White, (haven't read the full review yet), but you have to admit he has a point with this: .
 
 
."...because it <The Dark Knight> doesn’t require viewers to feel those discredited virtues, “hope” and “faith.” Like Hellboy II, this kind of sci-fi or horror or comics-whatever obviates morality. It trashes belief systems and encourages childish fantasies of absurd macho potency and fabulous grotesqueries. "
 
 
But I'm with you on Black Dahlia.  I don't think it is comparable at all to The Dark Knight and to bring it up as such pokes big holes in any critique of The Dark Knight.  And it was at best a mildly entertaining, yet completely forgetable movie.
 
Mike F. 

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