CFV, EB members and admin votes

Once again I would like to bring up the issue of EB members not
having admin votes if they also happen to be admins of a server.

In case you have not been around in the past when I have mentioned
this (years ago, now), I think it's artificial, unfair and wrong.

In cases where we are server admins, as we EB members all are, we
have a vested interest in our own servers just like any admin does.
It isn't fair to force us to either not vote or appoint others and
hope they vote with us.

I am not going to go into the relationships between existing
servers' staff for servers that are run by EB members because I
don't want this to be an attack on anyone's method of voting (or
not).

If I had a vote for lik-m-aid then I would take all my staff's
opinions into account (it wouldn't necessarily be a sub-vote amongst
my staff though).  I am not proposing that any server admin should
vote without regard of what their staff think.  In fact it is still
in our policies that staff should be consulted and I don't suggest
changing that.

Not only is it artificial and unfair to force us to either not vote
or put someone whose interests may not be the best interests of the
primary force behind the server in the voting seat.  It's also
detrimental to the network, in reducing the number of voters we
would have.  If EB members were allowed to vote, you would get votes
from lik-m-aid, and the chances are, both carrot AND mango if
permlinked would have voters.  penguin would still be voting too.
This would be a win and it has long confused me why we do not do
this.

I don't accept the argument that lik-m-aid could have a vote anyway
if I promoted someone to co-admin, e.g. Ben, because frankly, I
don't think I should have to purely for that.  If I promote Ben to
be co-admin I will do it because he is doing actual co-admin stuff,
not just voting.  As the person who has done all the work on that
jail, and who is the only one here that has any degree of contact
with jpayne and hide (owners of lik-m-aid's host) I think I should
be the one casting votes for that server.  But this isn't about me,
I think that ALL EB who are server admins should vote in admin
votes.

The only argument against it there has ever been has been that it is
somehow unfair for EB members to have both a vote in admin votes and
also the opportunity to overthrow the results of admin votes we
don't like.  I think this is nonsense as an admin vote is something
we should be entitled to as IRC ADMINS yet the EB overruling is
something we can never do without dire consequences.  To suggest
that one takes the place of the other is incorrect unless you want
to see some EB overrulings, which I assume you do not (I don't).

So what I am proposing is that the special rules about EB not being
allowed votes when they are IRC admins be removed, for the good and
simplicity of the network.  I am not suggesting that all EB have
votes always.  Only that there be no special rule against EB who are
also server admins.

I realise that this will mean that Phil Spencer would go from having
a vote to having to tell Silencer his opinion in the hope that
Andryan agreed with it, but sorry, that is IMHO how it is meant to
work irrespective of the individuals involved.  If Phil does
not like that he could:

- Go out and scout for a server of Canadian or at least North
  American origin

- Petition to be left in charge of mango if it were linked, or take
  carrot from Andryan and Andryan have mango

I intend to call an admin vote on this topic in a day or two, this
email is just meant to start the discussion again.  I hope when it
comes to the vote, Phil (CrazySpence) will vote objectively and not
against it purely because it may be his last vote..

Please discuss.

-- 
http://freebsdwiki.org/ - Encrypted mail welcome - keyid 0xBF15490B

"If you want the internet to continue to innovate, then the end-to-end model is
 critical."
 -- Randy Bush, nanog

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