Re: Proposed XMPP Extension: Explicit Mentions

> A message sent by the room directly to the used, probably and
> "headline". With a link to the room and message ID. I don't know
> about XEP-0224, I've not implemented it so far and Philipp Hörist
> explicitly asked to not use it in a previous message in this thread.
> XEP-0372 could do the job, but it was discussed yesterday at the
> council meeting that maybe your specification and XEP-0372 could be
> merged somehow?

I'm on the fence regarding XEP-0224 as well. It was suggested by someone
else in the thread for notifications, but then it was also argued
against. Its also been brought up to be used for room mentions, which
is an entirely different use-case. Sounds like no one knows what
XEP-0224 is supposed to be in the context of MUCs, which is worrying...

Most of what I've said about XEP-0372 still stands, but I agree we need
to figure out how this XEP relates to XEP-0372, and what to do about
the redundancy. I'm also not sure how it would work if we're separating
markup and notifications, considering References seems to be inexorably
tied to both use-cases. Parts of it replicate what I'd rather use
XEP-0394 for, while others seem more of a fit for the notification
functionality.

> The difficulty with Pubsub is that depending on the feature we can
> have any kind of payload.
> 
> We could just says that mention are only for blogging
> (XEP-0277/XEP-0472) and work with some kind of Atom extension (don't
> know if there is already something we can use with Atom).
> 
> But I also want to be able to mention people with other features, for
> instance with Pubsub File Sharing (XEP-0498) if somebody appears on a
> photo or is part of a team working on a PDF. I use Form Discovery and
> Publishing (XEP-0346) to make a tickets handling system (that you can
> see here: https://www.goffi.org/
> forge/goffi/libervia-backend/tickets), I want to be able to mention
> somebody in the ticket description. It can be useful for Calendar
> Events (XEP-0471) too, etc.
> 
> With XEP-0372 a message is sent independently of Pubsub with the
> Pubsub item linked in the `uri` parameter. That works.
> 
> Practical note: In my AP <=> XMPP gateway, I've had troubles to map 
> ActivityPub mention to XMPP XEP-0372 mentions because the former has
> the mentions inside the payload of the message, while with XEP-0372
> it's separated (and thus is not received at the same time). I don't
> think that we can really do otherwise with pubsub if we want
> something generic, as we can't modify the payload. Even if we used
> Pubsub Attachments (XEP-0470), this would be separated.
> Having XEP-0372 like separated message + maybe something in the
> payload in some cases (like blogging) could help.
> 
> So to sum-up: we need something that can send a <message
> type="headline"> to a JID with a link to the pubsub item. This is
> exactly what XEP-0372 is doing. I'll be happy to update my code if
> this feature is merged in explicit mention.

I see, this is all good information. I'll have to read through some of
the relevant XEPs to better understand the factors at play here. It
should definitely be possible to allow separating a mention from the
thing containing the mention.

This kind of contradicts what I said earlier, but if we're duplicating
all of the functionality of XEP-0372 anyways, I do wonder if there's a
way to make them play nice. Perhaps the mention could point to a
reference containing the URI the mention occured in, though that's a
lot of indirection...

> Now that Explicit Mention made it to experimental, I hope that will
> get good feedback from first implementations. It would be great if
> somebody could make a XEP-0394 update/new protoXEP for mentions
> (Marvin?).

Considering XEP-0513(:D) already focuses predominantly on the
client-side aspect, and already replicates much of XEP-0394, I think
it'd make sense to have this one be the markup XEP, and submit a second
one for the notifications.
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