Re: [opennic-discuss] Vote to keep or drop peering with NameCoin
Amunak <[email protected]> Mon, 1 Jul 2019 13:13:48 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.network.opennic.general |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------------=_1561979636-3952-56 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6920C78EC291B671F1513ADE" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6920C78EC291B671F1513ADE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, the EU for example mandates net neutrality, but that covers only ISPs. Individual countries still potentially can (and often do) ban certain domains and such to enforce their own laws (or that's the excuse anyway). That doesn't even prevent ISPs for blocking stuff from "generic block lists" like the IWF. Where I live, for example, gambling sites that aren't registered in my country are supposed to be banned to "prevent tax evasion". Some providers also block stuff on IWF's watchlist. Other countries have similar provisions to "protect themselves". Germany, for example, censors the internet by pressuring providers, social media sites, news sites and such to censor "hate speech" and "extremism", basically restricting freedom of speech. France forces telecom companies to use devices that send all traffic to the government. Stuff like that. But of course they are the good guys so it's all fine. I suggest you read up here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Internet_censorship_in_Europe - especially about Germany, France and the UK. Fair warning: we live in a fairly depressing, oppressive world with very little freedom that continues to diminish. Amunak On 01.07.2019 2:17, Daniel Quintiliani wrote: > Even in countries which mandate net neutrality? > > -- > > -Dan Q > > > On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 17:07:51 -0700, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I think you're wrong about that. A quick google and >> you'll see that DNS filtering is actually quite common. >> >> ~ Ole >> >> >> On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 18:56:32 -0400 (EDT) >> "Daniel Quintiliani" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> No ISP in the free world does this with their DNS >>> servers. Why should we? >>> >>> -- >>> >>> -Dan Q >>> >>> >>> On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 15:58:11 -0500, kevin >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> The problem here was, spamhaus painted ALL opennic >>>> peers with a broad brush. So those that won't filter >>>> anything, which I fully support, could potentially >>>> affect everyone. >>>> >>>> As many, if not most of us here appear to believe, this >>>> project has always been about freedom with >>>> collaboration via a touch of democracy (voting) thrown >>>> in. And I believe that everyone can (and will) do as >>>> they please. >>>> >>>> But... and so to repeat, those that filter nothing >>>> (including malware) could affect all of us. And like >>>> the .free domain, I don't care and would have preferred >>>> to keep it under openNIC. But, not everyone agrees >>>> with what I think. lol So filtering, at least for >>>> malware, certainly could be suggested as a strong >>>> guideline or recommendation. And my opinion with >>>> anything else, obviously leave that to the individual >>>> T2 hosts. >>>> >>>> Kevin >>>> >>>> On Sun, 2019-06-30 at 12:05 +0200, Amunak wrote: >>>>> Why? The T2 server list is capable of displaying and >>>>> filtering pretty >>>>> much anything. Some T2 server providers may choose to >>>>> run more blacklists, some may choose to run none. >>>>> That's their decision and as >>>>> long as they say so in their server's description >>>>> then more power to everyone - the whole point of >>>>> sharing T2 servers is to provide a service >>>>> to other users who have an interest in that service >>>>> *with that particular configuration*. Same goes for >>>>> logging and such. >>>>> >>>>> Sure, don't show it on the homepage among >>>>> "recommended servers" but there's no reason to >>>>> essentially blacklist those servers and operators >>>>> from OpenNic. >>>>> >>>>> Amunak >>>>> >>>>> On 30.06.2019 1:55, Jacob Bachmeyer wrote: >>>>>> Jeff Taylor wrote: >>>>>>> It could relate to any domains, opennic or >>>>>>> icann. And I'm not saying >>>>>>> we WILL, I'm just saying we COULD have that >>>>>>> option. Like with the >>>>>>> spamhaus listings, use of this would be up to the >>>>>>> individual T2 operators. At the moment there is >>>>>>> nothing planned, I just wrote the >>>>>>> API so we could expand on its use later if we >>>>>>> chose to. >>>>>> I suggest a policy restricting the use of >>>>>> non-malware blacklists to >>>>>> private T2 servers. In other words, T2 servers >>>>>> using blacklists for >>>>>> any category other than malware would not be >>>>>> eligible to be listed in >>>>>> the public directory. >>>>>> >>>>>> We might even want to require public T2 servers to >>>>>> blacklist known malware domains, but that is sure >>>>>> to be highly controversial. Should >>>>>> we censor ransomware? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Jacob >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -------- >>>>>> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. >>>>>> You may unsubscribe by emailing >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>> -------- >>>>> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. >>>>> You may unsubscribe by emailing >>>>> [email protected] >>>> -- >>>> http://ca.linkedin.com/in/kevinrattai/ >>>> >>>> https://winnipegcryptoconference.com/ >>>> >>>> https://github.com/krattai >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- >>>> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. >>>> You may unsubscribe by emailing >>>> [email protected] >>> >> >> -------- >> You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. >> You may unsubscribe by emailing [email protected] > > > > -------- > You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. > You may unsubscribe by emailing [email protected] --------------6920C78EC291B671F1513ADE Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <p>Yes, the EU for example mandates net neutrality, but that covers only ISPs. Individual countries still potentially can (and often do) ban certain domains and such to enforce their own laws (or that's the excuse anyway). That doesn't even prevent ISPs for blocking stuff from "generic block lists" like the IWF.<br> </p> <p>Where I live, for example, gambling sites that aren't registered in my country are supposed to be banned to "prevent tax evasion". Some providers also block stuff on IWF's watchlist.<br> </p> <p>Other countries have similar provisions to "protect themselves". Germany, for example, censors the internet by pressuring providers, social media sites, news sites and such to censor "hate speech" and "extremism", basically restricting freedom of speech. France forces telecom companies to use devices that send all traffic to the government. Stuff like that.</p> <p>But of course they are the good guys so it's all fine.</p> <p>I suggest you read up here: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Internet_censorship_in_Europe">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Internet_censorship_in_Europe</a> - especially about Germany, France and the UK.</p> <p>Fair warning: we live in a fairly depressing, oppressive world with very little freedom that continues to diminish.<br> </p> <p>Amunak<br> </p> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 01.07.2019 2:17, Daniel Quintiliani wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:[email protected]"> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Even in countries which mandate net neutrality? -- -Dan Q On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 17:07:51 -0700, <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">I think you're wrong about that. A quick google and you'll see that DNS filtering is actually quite common. ~ Ole On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 18:56:32 -0400 (EDT) "Daniel Quintiliani" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">No ISP in the free world does this with their DNS servers. Why should we? -- -Dan Q On Sun, 30 Jun 2019 15:58:11 -0500, kevin <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">The problem here was, spamhaus painted ALL opennic peers with a broad brush. So those that won't filter anything, which I fully support, could potentially affect everyone. As many, if not most of us here appear to believe, this project has always been about freedom with collaboration via a touch of democracy (voting) thrown in. And I believe that everyone can (and will) do as they please. But... and so to repeat, those that filter nothing (including malware) could affect all of us. And like the .free domain, I don't care and would have preferred to keep it under openNIC. But, not everyone agrees with what I think. lol So filtering, at least for malware, certainly could be suggested as a strong guideline or recommendation. And my opinion with anything else, obviously leave that to the individual T2 hosts. Kevin On Sun, 2019-06-30 at 12:05 +0200, Amunak wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Why? The T2 server list is capable of displaying and filtering pretty much anything. Some T2 server providers may choose to run more blacklists, some may choose to run none. That's their decision and as long as they say so in their server's description then more power to everyone - the whole point of sharing T2 servers is to provide a service to other users who have an interest in that service *with that particular configuration*. Same goes for logging and such. Sure, don't show it on the homepage among "recommended servers" but there's no reason to essentially blacklist those servers and operators from OpenNic. Amunak On 30.06.2019 1:55, Jacob Bachmeyer wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Jeff Taylor wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">It could relate to any domains, opennic or icann. And I'm not saying we WILL, I'm just saying we COULD have that option. Like with the spamhaus listings, use of this would be up to the individual T2 operators. At the moment there is nothing planned, I just wrote the API so we could expand on its use later if we chose to. </pre> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> I suggest a policy restricting the use of non-malware blacklists to private T2 servers. In other words, T2 servers using blacklists for any category other than malware would not be eligible to be listed in the public directory. We might even want to require public T2 servers to blacklist known malware domains, but that is sure to be highly controversial. Should we censor ransomware? -- Jacob -------- You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. You may unsubscribe by emailing <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> -------- You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. You may unsubscribe by emailing <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">-- <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ca.linkedin.com/in/kevinrattai/">http://ca.linkedin.com/in/kevinrattai/</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://winnipegcryptoconference.com/">https://winnipegcryptoconference.com/</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://github.com/krattai">https://github.com/krattai</a> -------- You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. You may unsubscribe by emailing <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> </pre> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> -------- You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. You may unsubscribe by emailing <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> </pre> </blockquote> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> </pre> <br> <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap=""> -------- You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. You may unsubscribe by emailing <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a> </pre> </blockquote> </body> </html> --------------6920C78EC291B671F1513ADE-- ------------=_1561979636-3952-56 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit -------- You are a member of the OpenNIC Discuss list. You may unsubscribe by emailing [email protected] ------------=_1561979636-3952-56--