Re: Southbay Tech Night...?

	Yeah, I was thinking specifically of the WP/BP docs @ toaster net. I'm  
envisioning packaging the information a bit differently and running it  
by my mother as a test; can I steal heavily from your docs, crediting  
and sharing the revs w/ you, of course?

On Oct 28, 2004, at 23:49, Cliff Skolnick wrote:

> Before everyone goes out and duplicates work, there are many  
> presentation on the BAWUG site.  You can also check out  
> www.toaster.net/wireless for some best practices documents.
>
> Cheers,
> Cliff
>
> On Oct 28, 2004, at 4:16 PM, Joshua Marker wrote:
>
>>
>> 	That's a fantastic idea - we need to add that to our list of likely  
>> user-types, for preparation of a whitepaper on the topic.
>>
>> 	Home users
>> 	Home users who want to share
>> 	Businesses who want to set up
>> 	Home users who want to work on larger network / tech issues
>> 	
>>
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2004, at 11:48, <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This sounds really interesting. I might even become active in the
>>> organization :). I would love to see the BAWG become a real resource
>>> (advisory, online information/training) for small local businesses  
>>> who
>>> want to setup and provide free wireless for their customers.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Angel S. Viloria III
>>> Training Services Project Manager
>>>   Knowledge is Security:
>>> http://www.sonicwall.com/img/TrnFlash/sw_sonicU.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: John D. Saunders [mailto:[email protected]]
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:02 AM
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: [BAWUG] Southbay Tech Night...?
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the idea of some small, local meetings with some how-to and
>>> general discussion sounds great.  There's a great place in downtown
>>> Campbell, Orchard Valley Coffee that I am sure would love to have a
>>> group in there- they have been providing free wireless for a while  
>>> now.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: [email protected]
>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On  
>>> Behalf
>>> Of [email protected]
>>> Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:22 AM
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Subject: wireless Digest, Vol 8, Issue 26
>>>
>>> Send wireless mailing list submissions to
>>> 	[email protected]
>>>
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>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific  
>>> than
>>> "Re: Contents of wireless digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. tech help meetings - Handout on creating free hotspots
>>>       (Joshua Marker)
>>>    2. Community meetings (Joshua Marker)
>>>    3. Re: Best hardware for cheap/fast bridging? (Jim Thompson)
>>>    4. Re: tech help meetings - Handout on creating free hotspots
>>>       (Eric Walstad)
>>>    5. Re: Good SFLAN node (Eric Walstad)
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>> -
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:28:19 -0700
>>> From: Joshua Marker <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: [BAWUG] tech help meetings - Handout on creating free
>>> 	hotspots
>>> To: Bay Area Wireless Users Group <[email protected]>
>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>>
>>> 	I'm thinking the best way to start this stuff off is to start
>>> locally,
>>> with small meetings. If I had an evening in Noe Valley, for example,
>>> where everyone was welcome to come chat about what they were doing,  
>>> who
>>> would come? There is a new place on Dolores that has free wireless  
>>> that
>>> would love the business - I think that would be my first choice.
>>>
>>> 	We should be able to provide, on our website and in print,
>>> simple
>>> documents explaining to Joe Public how to make his NAP free to the
>>> neighborhood, and include all sorts of guerilla good-network-neighbor
>>> stuff -- how to pick a channel, how to name your network so people  
>>> can
>>> contact you (without endangering yourself), etc.
>>>
>>> 	So this is two questions: How many people would show up to a
>>> basic
>>> wireless techfest and meet 'n greet in Noe/Mission next week, say
>>> Tuesday? If I could get a couple people to show up and answer
>>> questions, I'll go talk to the cafe and put up a sign.
>>>
>>>   	Second, what tips would you give Joe Q Public about opening up
>>> his
>>> wireless? What questions should we answer? I'll collect them, and
>>> prepare a doc. Does BAWUG have a decent logo, or do I have to  
>>> generate
>>> some travesty of something based on the golden gate bridge and  
>>> wireless
>>> radio waves? Don't make me do it; I will.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Never offend people with style when you can offend them with  
>>> substance.
>>>      -- Sam Brown, Washington Post
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:31:18 -0700
>>> From: Joshua Marker <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: [BAWUG] Community meetings
>>> To: Bay Area Wireless Users Group <[email protected]>
>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>>
>>> 	It seems to me that BAWUG/SFLAN have some enormously technically
>>>
>>> talented people involved. But that their development has both  
>>> stalled,
>>> probably because only the terribly technical people originally  
>>> involved
>>> have reached their carrying capacity in terms of attention.
>>>
>>> 	I think, however, that wireless in the bay area has a ways to
>>> go.
>>> Those guys in Portland are seriously showing us up.
>>>
>>> 	To this end, I suggest we take a look at what they're doing that
>>> we're
>>> not. I'm looking for input on getting more _user_ involvement to take
>>> the burden off these guys and get the local network going, both in
>>> terms of increasing the number of Joe Publics making free hotspots  
>>> and
>>> increasing links to SFLAN. A glance through Portland's site shows  
>>> what
>>> they're doing:
>>>
>>> 1) Meetings, both user-level and developer-level
>>> 2) Organization. I'm not sure how much org there is. I think quite a
>>> lot in SFLAN, but it seems to be tightly held. I can't, for example,
>>> find any info about what IP layout they use, etc, etc.
>>>
>>> 	It seems to me the goal of a wireless group should be to
>>> encourage any
>>> kind of adoption, from getting people to put up SFLAN nodes (clearly  
>>> a
>>> big win) to simply sharing their DSL. To this end, we need to make it
>>> _easy_ for people to walk up the wireless path.
>>>
>>> 	First, we need simple hand-holding explanations of what Joe User
>>> can
>>>
>>> do to put up a WAP and share his connection with his neighbor. This
>>> entails getting an ISP that doesn't mind, buying the tools, choosing
>>> the best channel, and securing their own machines. I think there will
>>> be a hand-out document* in the future here on this topic, but the  
>>> best
>>> way to do research is to start helping people.
>>>
>>> 	Second, I know I'd like to see more of a plan, more info on what
>>> SFLAN
>>> is about and what their future direction is. It's hard to know it  
>>> right
>>> now. To this end, Friday, I'll go down to archive.org and bother the
>>> fine gents at SFLAN, if I can find them, and see if I can fill the  
>>> gaps
>>> in my knowledge. I'd like to see some network infrastructure plans,  
>>> get
>>> a sense of how this all goes down. Ideally, this should be
>>> semi-documented, but I'm not sure how best to go about it or what  
>>> they
>>> have done already.
>>>
>>> 	Third (I lied, there are three, I just thought of this):
>>> Recognition.
>>> Nobody knows to whom they should turn if they want to set up a  
>>> wireless
>>> link. Many of the local cafes are already starbucked, which is a  
>>> shame,
>>> because they both advertise and encourage if you get them in. A logo?
>>> Something to add to warchalking (does anyone warchalk anymore?) How  
>>> can
>>> we let people know about what they could do for/with community
>>> wireless? I think if we get a little bit of organization, we could
>>> arrange an interview by eg the Guardian, and drive up membership or
>>> interest. We'll need an active group before that's smart, though.
>>>
>>> 	In the mean time, I think we need to light a fire. Mr.
>>> Pretorious has
>>> offered a meeting spot for a bigger, full-scale meeting, in Freemont.
>>> Does anyone have one in San Francisco? I think we'd get more people.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Don't be afraid to take a big step if one is indicated. You can't  
>>> cross
>>> a chasm in two small jumps.  -- David Lloyd George
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 3
>>> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:58:24 -1000
>>> From: Jim Thompson <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: Re: [BAWUG] Best hardware for cheap/fast bridging?
>>> To: Eric Pretorious <[email protected]>
>>> Cc: [email protected]
>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>>
>>> Eric Pretorious wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday 26 October 2004 03:40 pm, Chris Weiss wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We're looking to connect our office LANs on two adjacent floors  
>>>>> using
>>>>> a wireless connection (the current cat-5 snaking out the window is  
>>>>> not
>>>
>>>>> going to cut it when the weather _really_ gets sour).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Omnidirectional antennas are *generally* optimized to focus their
>>>> beams in
>>> the
>>>> horizontal plane. i.e., The beam radiation pattern looks like a
>>>> squashed
>>>> donut. Therefore, two devices directly above/below each other will  
>>>> not
>>> be
>>>> able to communicate efficiently because they will be in each others'
>>>> donut-hole.
>>>
>>> This is typically an effect of increased gain, not any  
>>> "optimization".
>>>
>>> Further, the path loss between two devices (antennas) placed directly
>>> above each other will be quite low, so even with the loss in
>>> directivity, communication will probably still take place.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Amazon's got the Linksys WRT-54G for ~$60/ea...
>>>>
>>>> IMHO: An excellent piece of equipment for residential use but I  
>>>> don't
>>>> know
>>>
>>>> about commerical applications. WPA (TKIP or AES), DHCP, detachable
>>>> dual
>>>> antennas.
>>> It has all this.  (Not that I think its much of an AP...)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> We'd also like to keep our existing wifi access, which leads to
>>>>> another Q - I've heard that just the presence of 802.11b devices  
>>>>> in an
>>>
>>>>> 802.11g environment will drop everyone to b speeds, is that right?
>>>
>>> For sure if an 11b device associates to an 11g AP, then the AP and  
>>> its
>>> associated 11g STAs must start sending protection frames before any  
>>> data
>>>
>>> frame(s).
>>>
>>> While this doesn't drop everyone to 11b speeds, it does slow  
>>> throughput
>>> down quite a bit.
>>>
>>> The alternative is massive interference for everyone.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Set the different networks on different channels:
>>>>
>>>>   http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1152281,00.asp
>>>
>>> What you don't know can hurt you.  Most 11g devices don't have enough
>>> ACR at the higher modulation rates to allow simultaneous operation on
>>> ch11 and ch1.  (Anything closer is a bigger mess.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 4
>>> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:56:59 -0700
>>> From: Eric Walstad <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: Re: [BAWUG] tech help meetings - Handout on creating free
>>> 	hotspots
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> On Wednesday 27 October 2004 05:28 pm, Joshua Marker wrote:
>>>>  I'm thinking the best way to start this stuff off is to start
>>>> locally, with small meetings. If I had an evening in Noe Valley, for
>>>> example, where everyone was welcome to come chat about what they  
>>>> were
>>>> doing, who would come? There is a new place on Dolores that has free
>>>> wireless that would love the business - I think that would be my  
>>>> first
>>>
>>>> choice.
>>> Count me in.  I'm in Bernal Heights, so Noe would be a nice bike ride
>>> for me.
>>>
>>>
>>>>  We should be able to provide, on our website and in print, simple
>>>> documents explaining to Joe Public how to make his NAP free to the
>>>> neighborhood, and include all sorts of guerilla  
>>>> good-network-neighbor
>>>> stuff -- how to pick a channel, how to name your network so people  
>>>> can
>>>
>>>> contact you (without endangering yourself), etc.
>>> Consider me Joe Public.  I'm happy to be the test case.  I've done
>>> some of this stuff, but I've done so in a vacuum and would like to
>>> see how others are doing it.
>>>
>>>
>>>>  So this is two questions: How many people would show up to a basic
>>>> wireless techfest and meet 'n greet in Noe/Mission next week, say
>>>> Tuesday? If I could get a couple people to show up and answer
>>>> questions, I'll go talk to the cafe and put up a sign.
>>> I'll show up, but I'll likely take the role of student rather than
>>> teacher.  I'm happy to talk about my current setup but it would be a
>>> short talk (using SFLAN to provide a network connection at home).
>>>
>>>
>>>>    Second, what tips would you give Joe Q Public about opening up  
>>>> his
>>>> wireless?
>>> I've not done this, although I have emailed SFLAN requesting info on
>>> how to use my Soekris 4521 to create a new SFLAN node.  No response
>>> yet.
>>>
>>>
>>>> What questions should we answer?
>>> - What's needed to setup an SFLAN node
>>>   - Are two different radios needed (b & g)?
>>>   - What's the difference between a node and a repeater?
>>>   - Must I have a good connection to certain SFLAN nodes
>>>     to create a new node?
>>>
>>> Eric.
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>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 5
>>> Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:01:52 -0700
>>> From: Eric Walstad <[email protected]>
>>> Subject: Re: [BAWUG] Good SFLAN node
>>> To: [email protected]
>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>
>>> On Wednesday 27 October 2004 05:19 pm, Joshua Marker wrote:
>>>> Can anyone recommend a good SFLAN node accessible from street level
>>>> from which to examine the network? My local (47) never seems to show
>>>> up; I fear it may be high above.
>>> FWIW, I've been able to connect to 47 (I think) every time I've  
>>> tried.
>>> But, I do have a little altitude.  Presumably you've seen the node
>>> map:
>>> <http://woody.archive.org/nagios/cgi-bin/statusmap.cgi>
>>> which may help.  It looks like 6, 37, 44 and 11 are all up right now,
>>> according to the status map.
>>>
>>> Eric.
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>>>
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>> -- 
>> Poor spelling does not prove poor knowledge, but is fatal to the  
>> argument by intimidation.
>>     -- Gene Ward Smith
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> --
> "Most people are not really free.  They are confined by the niche in  
> the world that they carve out for themselves.  They limit themselves  
> to fewer possibilities by the narrowness of their vision."
> - V. S. Naipaul
>
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