RE: NLOS vendors in the greater Seattle area?

Todd,

Any idea what the gross margins are in telecommunications?  For some
reason, I keep thinking that they are extremely thin these days.  Would
a network of people who were "in it for themselves" be able to
financially support such infrastructure?  How about communities that
heavily rely on the universal service fund?  Those $0.05/min calls are
actually $5.00/min or more. 

While I am all for the construction of CWN's, I question if *the people*
can throw out their telephones and actually own all the infrastructure
and pay for it.  Frankly, paying $20 a month for a tie into a global
communications network operated by someone who doesn't turn off the
computer at night is not a bad deal for most.

Although, as a Qwest DSL subscriber, I am very close to spending
hundreds on my own infrastructure just to get away from their ToS from
hell that rivals even comcast.  Only time will tell.. . 



________________________________

	From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd Boyle
	Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2006 1:06 PM
	To: SeattleWireless Talk List
	Subject: RE: NLOS vendors in the greater Seattle area?
	
	
	At 09:13 AM 1/18/2006, Casey Halverson wrote:
	>Don't we all wish we could get 100mbit+ NLOS?  :)
	
	To me the need to avoid endless rent-seeking behavior
	by the providers has become a personal cause.  So has
	the need to avoid the growing censorship or blocking of
	types of content, protocols, etc and the growing snooping
	and surveillance.     I really think the only solution in the
	long run is owner-operated and controlled hardware,
	because we have learned, whenever 3rd parties have a
	role in your information infrastructure the moral temptation
	to them is too great, and they start abusing the user,
	exploiting their position.  In fact a competition and laissez
	faire policy forces that outcome becaue whatever
	advantage they do NOT exploit, some guy like Bill Gates
	comes and exploits ALL of them to the maximum.
	
	Perhaps most of you have also come to this conclusion,
	the necessity of users to actually OWN the infrastructure.
	If you are in the suburbs, at some point doesn't it make sense 
	to just lay our own 3rd fiber network?  We own our property
	in the suburbs.   Once people "get the hang of it", they
	might be willing to allow a Cooperative, to extend a 
	segment across their back fence in exchange for access 
	to whatever bandwidth is on that segment.   
	
	What's lacking is the same thing thats lacking from any
	community wireless effort: agreement on a governance/usage
	model, because you need that in order to design the
	architecture..  i.e. what would be the range of identity or 
	privacy deliverables from the network.  I think you need
	these for a community network regardless whether its
	wireless or fiber.    The only thing I see, around the country
	is people doing this within the municipal governments.
	That *may* be jumping from the frying pan into the fire, 
	which they may live to regret someday.  The behavior of
	city hall is so notorious, historically that some people 
	will categorically vote no on municipal owned broadband,
	
	If you're in King County Library district ask your library
boards
	for content repositories to accompany the WiFi networks.
	There we can upload television programming since nobody
	has a PEG channel for our local content (except Seattle SCAN77)
	
	TOdd.
	
	
	At 09:13 AM 1/18/2006, Casey Halverson wrote:
	

		Don't we all wish we could get 100mbit+ NLOS?  :)
		
		Non-line of sight technologies are not going to get you
over a couple
		megabits.  Even the Wimax forum admits that NLOS OFDM
will maybe yield
		5mbps in the best of NLOS conditions.  Its not too hard
to bounce off a
		few points to obtain end-to-end LOS within this area.
However, this may
		prove to be more expensive than a leased line.
		
		If you are looking for a short range, high bandwidth
solution, you may
		want to investigate metro ethernet or dark fiber within
the Bellevue
		area.  Its inexpensive and fast --- we do layer 2
point-to-point metro
		ethernet between a couple buildings in downtown
bellevue.
		
		
		 
		> -----Original Message-----
		> From: [email protected] 
		> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of
Adam D. Morley
		> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 11:01 PM
		> To: [email protected]
		> Subject: NLOS vendors in the greater Seattle area?
		> 
		> Hi,
		> 
		> I am interested in any vendors or consultants that
have 
		> experience with high-bandwidth (50-100mbit+),
low-latency 
		> (<20-30ms) NLOS products that can provide site-survey 
		> capabilities in the Bellevue area.  If you are (or
know of) 
		> such a vendor, please drop me a mail off-list.  I have

		> funding for the site-survey, so it's not a freebie.
		> 
		> Effectively, I would like to find a group that has
worked 
		> with these products before, and can evaluate the
potential 
		> for a point-to-point link for linking two locations
together 
		> with low-latency, high-bandwidth connections.  The
distances 
		> are quite short --- just a few miles, but the
challenges are 
		> ... numerous.  Preferably bridges, encryption, VLAN
tunneling, etc.
		> 
		> Thanks!
		> 
		> --
		> adam
		> _______________________________________________
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