wash water heating
Felix Kersting <[email protected]> Mon, 13 Aug 2007 22:57:20 -0700
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1964145054== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------000104060808020001060605" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000104060808020001060605 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Zac Imboden wrote: There's usually already water in the wash tote. So=20 drain down to the 15 gallon mark and refill to 50. That's 35 gallons. At 35 gallons per wash, we should only expect 2 washes per session. Note that 35/0.7 =3D 50 gallons, so we can only expect 35 gallons of hot=20 water from each 50 gallon water heater. Using the idea about=20 thermostats below, we should be able to have the 120 & 2 ea 50 gallon=20 water heaters on line all the time to provide hot water. They would=20 deliver 140 gallons of hot water about every 13 hours using 1500 watt=20 elements. We could connect the 120 gal water heater to 240V and get=20 quicker recovery. downt o 6.5 hours to match the 50s. It should be relatively easy to hook up the 50s inside the conex - they=20 won't need containment and we can pipe in CPVC. A good task would be to have someone identify and prep the 2 50s so I=20 can get them plumbed. Contact me to discuss the way the top elements=20 need to be wired to make the staged connection for the 2 water heaters -=20 not difficult, just unusual. Felix Here's the history***************** We need a second heater, especially once we set up the second wash tote. I agree. Looks like I shot myself in the foot by building the second wash= tote! 1) We need to discuss ways we can use less water, ie a slower pump =20 that allows us to move a smaller amount of water more slowly. For the =20 immediate future, we can plan on throttling the pump way back. How will a slower pump make any difference? the amount of stuff that com= es out in the wash is limited by the concentration in the wash water and = nothing else.=20 2) We could look into a continuous flow heater that will heat any =20 water going into the wash tote. See the attached spreadsheet to get the detail on how much energy it take= s to heat water. Note that a continuous flow water heater that runs at 1= gpm would require about 11,750 Watts to achieve an 80=B0 temperature ris= e, requiring about 100 amps of power @ 120V. It would also require 35 to= 50 minutes to fill the wash tank......(depending on the actual amount of= water you are using). Hopefully driving a stake in this completely impr= actical idea. Now you see the beauty of storage water heaters. Note as well that 2 1500W heaters would require about 25 amps of power (t= otal). Note that we have a 240V 30A circuit into the Conex from the hous= e. This would allow us to run 4 such elements continuously. BUT, there = is another way to do this using existing water heater technology that I w= ill not describe here. Well, OK - the top element is a switching thermost= at and could be used on the bottom of one water heater to switch power to= another water heater - when one is hot, the other would heat. if the fi= rst heater turned on again, the second heater would switch off, so there = is only one element running at once. Great for 2 water heaters in series. Any other ideas? We might consider using a hot first wash, then a warm second wash then a = cold third wash, when the soap is washed out and the possibility of an em= ulsion is virtually zero. Worth a try? --------------000104060808020001060605 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Zac Imboden wrote: There's usually already water in the wash tote. So drain down to the 15 gallon mark and refill to 50. That's 35 gallons. <br> <br> At 35 gallons per wash, we should only expect 2 washes per session.<br> <br> Note that 35/0.7 = 50 gallons, so we can only expect 35 gallons of hot water from each 50 gallon water heater. Using the idea about thermostats below, we should be able to have the 120 & 2 ea 50 gallon water heaters on line all the time to provide hot water. They would deliver 140 gallons of hot water about every 13 hours using 1500 watt elements. We could connect the 120 gal water heater to 240V and get quicker recovery. downt o 6.5 hours to match the 50s.<br> <br> It should be relatively easy to hook up the 50s inside the conex - they won't need containment and we can pipe in CPVC.<br> <br> A good task would be to have someone identify and prep the 2 50s so I can get them plumbed. Contact me to discuss the way the top elements need to be wired to make the staged connection for the 2 water heaters - not difficult, just unusual.<br> <br> Felix<br> <br> Here's the history*****************<br> <br> <pre wrap="">We need a second heater, especially once we set up the second wash tote. <font color="#3366ff" face="Arial">I agree. Looks like I shot myself in the foot by building the second wash tote! </font> 1) We need to discuss ways we can use less water, ie a slower pump that allows us to move a smaller amount of water more slowly. For the immediate future, we can plan on throttling the pump way back. <font color="#3366ff"><font face="Arial">How will a slower pump make any difference? the amount of stuff that comes out in the wash is limited by the concentration in the wash water and nothing else. </font></font> 2) We could look into a continuous flow heater that will heat any water going into the wash tote. <font color="#3366ff"><font face="Arial">See the attached spreadsheet to get the detail on how much energy it takes to heat water. Note that a continuous flow water heater that runs at 1 gpm would require about 11,750 Watts to achieve an 80° temperature rise, requiring about 100 amps of power @ 120V. It would also require 35 to 50 minutes to fill the wash tank......(depending on the actual amount of water you are using). Hopefully driving a stake in this completely impractical idea. Now you see the beauty of storage water heaters. Note as well that 2 1500W heaters would require about 25 amps of power (total). Note that we have a 240V 30A circuit into the Conex from the house. This would allow us to run 4 such elements continuously. BUT, there is another way to do this using existing water heater technology that I will not describe here. Well, OK - the top element is a switching thermostat and could be used on the bottom of one water heater to switch power to another water heater - when one is hot, the other would heat. if the first heater turned on again, the second heater would switch off, so there is only one element running at once. Great for 2 water heaters in series. </font></font> Any other ideas?<font color="#3366ff"><font face="Arial"> We might consider using a hot first wash, then a warm second wash then a cold third wash, when the soap is washed out and the possibility of an emulsion is virtually zero. Worth a try?</font></font></pre> <br> </body> </html> --------------000104060808020001060605-- --===============1964145054== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ mixmasters mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gobiodiesel.org/mailman/listinfo/mixmasters --===============1964145054==--