Re: FWB: Foss with benefits

"L.Cecilie Wian" <[email protected]> Thu, 5 Feb 2015 09:29:47 +0100
Newsgroups gmane.org.fsf.education.europe
Message-ID <CAKbfDB9993imHmu-kJ_njPUKxwWoKgo=sJS477vUXVZFvsyJmA@mail.gmail.com>
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On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Charles Coss=C3=A9 <[email protected]> wrote=
:

> Thank you Michael :)
>
> On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 12:39 AM, Michael Kesper <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Am 05.02.2015 um 08:12 schrieb L.Cecilie Wian:
>>
>>> Now I may sound like I got bitten by Richard, but,  you keep saying
>>> "open source",  not "free software". That matters. At least when you
>>> send out  on this list.
>>>
>>> I will probably take a look at your project,  but it doesn't feel like
>>> you are listening to marko . And you should.
>>>
>>
>> Please please read your comments again.
>> I'm very sad to hear such harsh comments when somebody proposes a tool
>> for propagating knowledge about Free Software.
>>
>
I meant to be strict, not rude.
And i was annoyed by phrasing, where developers and parents was invited to
the discussion, not everyone on the list, thus disregarding the input you
got. Glad that was not your intention.



>> @Charles: Thanks for the info about your project!
>> I think it's better to not create false dichotomies in people's mind:
>> - Free Software (aka open source) is always commercially useable, that's
>> freedom 0
>> - FSFE absolutely encourages building business models on creating,
>> spreading, studying, using or improving Free Software!
>> - As there's no free lunch, you've got to have some way to accept money
>> if you want to build a sustaining infrastructure
>>
>> So, I'd cut out the "non-commercial" attribute and would paraphrase it
>> differently, better explaining what you mean.
>>
>
It looks like i'm missing an email here?

Anyway, i'll go a little back and talk a littlebit about the semantics,
because when getting into EDU what seems like a detail is huge.
The non-comercial part is at first glance a good way of ensuring no-one
takes your good ideas and run of with them, while ensuring the intended
audience get to use the software. However be aware that a lot of schools
and educators are actually in private sector and NC in a licence keeps them
from being allowed to use it, b/c they make money out of education. The
other way to go about it is the GPL, and since you say you want that i
think we are getting somewhere intressting.

I'll have a closer look at your project now.

When it comes to the very little amount of edu-software (on the list, but
also everywhere else), it is so b/c it is a really hard thing to do. Not
only to make technically a good solution, but one that interact with humans
with edu in mind. However it is not impossible.

--=20
Cecilie Wian

"A ship is safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."*- Grace
Hopper / William G.T. Shedd*

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Thu, Feb 5, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Charles Coss=C3=A9 <span dir=3D"ltr">&l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0p=
x 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);bo=
rder-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you Michael =
:)<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Th=
u, Feb 5, 2015 at 12:39 AM, Michael Kesper <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span>=
 wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-st=
yle:solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi all,<br>
<br>
Am 05.02.2015 um 08:12 schrieb L.Cecilie Wian:<span class=3D""><span><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
Now I may sound like I got bitten by Richard, but,=C2=A0 you keep saying<br=
>
&quot;open source&quot;,=C2=A0 not &quot;free software&quot;. That matters.=
 At least when you<br>
send out=C2=A0 on this list.<br>
<br>
I will probably take a look at your project,=C2=A0 but it doesn&#39;t feel =
like<br>
you are listening to marko . And you should.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></span></span>
Please please read your comments again.<br>
I&#39;m very sad to hear such harsh comments when somebody proposes a tool =
for propagating knowledge about Free Software.<br></blockquote></div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I meant to be strict, not rude.=C2=A0</div=
><div>And i was annoyed by phrasing, where developers and parents was invit=
ed to the discussion, not everyone on the list, thus disregarding the input=
 you got. Glad that was not your intention.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>=
<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8=
ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-sty=
le:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;b=
order-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:s=
olid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
@Charles: Thanks for the info about your project!<br>
I think it&#39;s better to not create false dichotomies in people&#39;s min=
d:<br>
- Free Software (aka open source) is always commercially useable, that&#39;=
s freedom 0<br>
- FSFE absolutely encourages building business models on creating, spreadin=
g, studying, using or improving Free Software!<br>
- As there&#39;s no free lunch, you&#39;ve got to have some way to accept m=
oney if you want to build a sustaining infrastructure<br>
<br>
So, I&#39;d cut out the &quot;non-commercial&quot; attribute and would para=
phrase it differently, better explaining what you mean.<br></blockquote></d=
iv></div></blockquote></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div>It looks l=
ike i&#39;m missing an email here?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><b=
r></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Anyway, i&#39;ll go a little back and ta=
lk a littlebit about the semantics, because when getting into EDU what seem=
s like a detail is huge.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">The non-come=
rcial part is at first glance a good way of ensuring no-one takes your good=
 ideas and run of with them, while ensuring the intended audience get to us=
e the software. However be aware that a lot of schools and educators are ac=
tually in private sector and NC in a licence keeps them from being allowed =
to use it, b/c they make money out of education. The other way to go about =
it is the GPL, and since you say you want that i think we are getting somew=
here intressting.=C2=A0<br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra">I&#39;ll have a closer look at your project now.=C2=
=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">Wh=
en it comes to the very little amount of edu-software (on the list, but als=
o everywhere else), it is so b/c it is a really hard thing to do. Not only =
to make technically a good solution, but one that interact with humans with=
 edu in mind. However it is not impossible.=C2=A0<br clear=3D"all"><div><br=
></div>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D=
"gmail_signature">Cecilie Wian<br><br><h1 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 15px;colo=
r:rgb(24,24,24);font-weight:normal;padding:0px;font-size:14px;font-family:G=
eorgia,&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif;line-height:18px">&quot;A ship is sa=
fe in harbor, but that&#39;s not what ships are for.&quot;</h1><h1 style=3D=
"margin:0px 0px 15px;color:rgb(24,24,24);font-weight:normal;padding:0px;fon=
t-size:14px;font-family:Georgia,&#39;Times New Roman&#39;,serif;line-height=
:18px"><i style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style=3D"c=
olor:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:small;line-height:normal">- Grace Hopper /=C2=A0<=
/span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:small;line-height:normal">W=
illiam G.T. Shedd</span></i></h1></div></div></div>
</div></div>

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