Re: [OS:N:] Re: Questionaire about the support of students rights and the freedom in the learning environment

--- tek <[email protected]> wrote:
> > --- Jeremy Hogan <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2003-08-12 at 13:33, James Michael DuPont wrote:
> > > > The crux of my point is summed up here : 
> > > > http://fsedu.org/fsedu.pl?DefendStudents
> > > > 
> > > >    1. You have the right to use free software instead of
> > > proprietary
> > > > software for all school-related tasks. The school shall not
> impede
> > > this
> > > > right in any way.
> > > >    2. You have the right to demand open file formats:
> > > >          1. Allow sincere choice of software/operating system
> > > >          2. Openly specified and freely implementable
> > > >          3. Work with completely Free systems 
> > > >    3. You have the right to publish your homework assignments
> as
> > > you
> > > > see fit, for profit or gratis.
> > > >    4. You have the right to publish what you learn, in your own
> > > words,
> > > > for profit or gratis.
> > > 
> > > No one is forced to use Red Hat or its training. If schools like
> your
> > > solution, so be it. At least there's a choice.
> > 
> > But do the students have any of these freedomes when they choose to
> > take part in a redhat online courseware?
> > 
> > You say that they are not forced to take this course.
> > But please answer the question, is is possible for them to take
> part in
> > the redhat acedemy or the red hat courseware and not aggree to any
> > licensing aggreements for the software installed on the client
> > computers  that requires them giving up thier basic freedoms?
> 
> I think anyone creating something has the right to decide if, how and
> when their 
> stuff will and can be distributed. You have a right to create
> material under any 
> license you should decide to chose. Bottom line, your content, your
> choice, your 
> decision, whatever license you want as long as it doesnt conflict
> with any 
> licensing of material your including. You cant squirrel away
> something that was 
> meant for the public by prior license but if you have created it all
> you can 
> sign it under any damn license that you feel comfortable with.
> 
>  
> > if so, then the FSEdu project will criticize this, and try and make
> it
> > so that the students can study without agreeing to these contracts
> to
> > take away thier basic freedoms.
> 
> You might find yourself getting farther along if you chose to word it
> 
> differently. How about something like "well we plan to create course
> material 
> and distribute it under the GPL, would you be interested in
> contributing any 
> material that you have created and are you willing to agree to these
> licensing 
> terms."

It does not matter how nicely you package the contracts to rob the
students of thier freedoms, in the end they are the ones loosing. Even
if you give them a warm and fuzzy feeling at the same time.

You can read all about the well writting goals of the FSEDU project
from much better writers than me. I am doing the dirty job of telling
you about the people who are losing in the equasion, the students. It
does not matter how you portray it, they are still losing out. Our
friends at digital rights can pay their morgage and buy nice clothes.
Great, give your self a pat of the back, you are teaching them about
"open source" but nothing about freedom, in fact you are taking their
freedom away.

> 
> Bottom line is your going to be competing against them, i have
> another friend 
> who is doing the same thing and he is doing all of his material under
> the GPL.
> He just delivers it in person and its his own created material. If
> you want to 
> be successful you more than anything have to be a people person.

Right now, there are enough violations of the rights of the students
and  enought students who are victimized to provide the market for the
FSEDU services. 

The issue here that you are all forgetting is the students rights. All
this talk about IP and restrictions, no one is talke about the
students. 



> After all if 
> your materials all free? why do they need you and why should they pay
> you 
> anything?

Students pay for people who teach them things, they pay for
personalized content, they pay for the service of providing the
learning materials. 


mike

=====
James Michael DuPont
http://introspector.sourceforge.net/

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