Re: [OS:N:] Another multiple response (Basic rights warmed up in the microwave again)

James Michael DuPont <[email protected]> wrote:

>>
The next best way to caputre a market and take away all thier freedoms.
<<

I'll point out, parenthetically, that the only one talking about taking
away anyone's freedoms here is you.

>>
When I talk about the rights of the students, I mean that as well. When
you look at the contracts, laws and EULA, you see that they are
designed on limiting the rights of the users.
<<

As I have repeatedly stated, there is *no* right to the source code of
programs other people write. Or to the "source" of media, for that matter.
A more general description of contracts, laws, and EULAs is that they are
designed to ensure that both parties understand what they are and are not
expected to do. The GPL explicitly grants the right to the source code of
software licenced under it - but the use of the GPL is quite properly at
the discretion of the original author and is a privilege extended to the
user, not a basic human right.

>>
In the pure state, a human is not bound by contract, only by binding
themselves to various agreements do these rights become take away.
<<

In the pure state, there is no such thing as software or source code.

>>
The proponents of IP on this list are interested in these "rightless"
people because they do not trust them, and because they can help pay
off thier morgages and buy luxary goods for thier children. But there
are other ways to do this without taking away student rights, like
teaching them things.
<<

Sigh. Of course students have rights. They're not "rightless" people, so
please do not erect straw-man arguments. I've spent a sizeable proportion
of my life interacting with adult students, so I know them as *people*, not
abstract entities as you seem to do. I find your assertion that I  view the
people who attend my courses as some kind of cash cow to be milked so that
I can attain a luxurious lifestyle to be personally offensive. It does you
no credit.

The students I deal with are customers, so I strain to provide them with
value; I work long hours to make sure that they get the best value for
their money that I can. I answer their questions, during the course, during
coffee breaks and lunch breaks, and after the course, by email. I solve
their problems directly wherever I can. I laugh at their jokes and tell
them mine. I listen to their complaints about PHB's, and suggest ways they
can overcome office politics and get the technical solutions they want
implemented. I provide them with access to updated course materials and
additional information, in addition to the hundreds of slides and hundreds
of pages of printed course materials they receive.

I do the same for articles, whether in a magazine or on my web site - I
answer questions, send people updates, and so on.

I work hard at all this, and I tell you straight out: I have *never* taken
away any student's rights. Not in any way, shape or form.

On the other hand, I have listed a very few specific cases where I know a
student has taken away mine. Does this mean I do not trust people? Not
100%, no - only a fool leaves the front door of his house open, the keys in
his parked car, and so on. To be honest, I am very upset when it happens; I
take it personally, and it shakes my faith in human nature. However, in
general I am optimistic that people will do the right thing and the vast
majority of people are worthy of that.

>>
I challenge you IP people to make some statements about students and
user rights in general, that is the context of this list, or am I
wrong?
<<

Have I not been specific enough? One last time: students and users have
*never* had a "right" to the source code for other people's programs,
except where the author confers that right via the GPL or a similar
licence. You can't take away a right that never existed.

Best,

--- Les Bell, RHCE, CISSP
[http://www.lesbell.com.au]



_______________________________________________
Subscription and Archive: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/open-source-now-list/
-
For K12OS technical help join K12OSN:
<https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/k12osn>