Re: Using Cloudflare after Christchurch

Hi all,

InternetNZ are working on a well-considered response and I do support them,
but I don't think they are the only organisation or group where this should
be discussed. Especially where operational decisions are involved which may
have downstream effects.

I agree with Peter and Michael; the argument that "it's just content" and
that ISPs have no role in layer 8+ policy decisions is a bit disingenuous,
because we regularly filter our customers from bad things. We run spam
filters, we block malware sites, we choose to stop working with abusive
customers; we (try to) make the internet a hostile place for bad people to
operate. This isn't censorship--they can still get content online--we just
don't make it easy for them.

Cloudflare have taken a commercial position based on a very US-centric
"free speech" world view that they, effectively, shouldn't try to do any of
this. Personally, I can understand their position, but I don't agree with
it. Lacking any US amendment, the seemingly only way to change this
commercial position is to apply commercial pressure, which is the point
that Peter is making; is anyone considering operational changes to apply
commercial pressure?

I know on the consumer side, at $DAYJOB we're looking at edge services.
Cloudflare are of course one of the options. Based on my personal
experience with my free account I was going to strongly back them, but
their continued non-response to these events has made me reconsider that
and my personal IT involvement with them.

Thanks,
Jed.



On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 11:06, Peter Lambrechtsen <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have tried tweeting eastdakota when I was doxed and haven't had a
> response. If you get a response I would be interested.
>
> But I highly recommend you ask him the pointed question about the AUP of
> Cloudflare as brevity of it speaks volumes:
>
> https://www.cloudflare.com/terms/
>
> And ask him why *all* the most vile sites on the internet seem to only use
> his services for WAF/DDoS protection and none of the other providers and
> why he doesn't do anything about it. It's no mistake that there isn't any
> validation of the email address you use when signing up to the Cloudflare
> service.
>
> Cheers, Peter
>
> On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 10:44 AM Mehmet Akcin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> If you have concerns, email the ceo or tweet him @eastdakota. Good guy,
>> reasonable, and he will take time respond. I know people who work there.
>> They are not going to let anyone malicious use their platform knowingly.
>>
>> ‘Mehmet
>>
>> On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 15:14 Michael Fincham <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 3 May 2019 09:10:50 +1200
>>> Jonathan Brewer <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> > InternetNZ is the forum to discuss this, not NZNOG.
>>>
>>> Engineers have a personal responsibility to ensure that the actions they
>>> take, even on behalf of an employer, are ethically right.
>>>
>>> I do think therefore this is a discussion for NZNOG, being as it is a
>>> community of engineers who do the implementing.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> NZNOG mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://list.waikato.ac.nz/mailman/listinfo/nznog
>>>
>> --
>> Mehmet
>> +1-424-298-1903
>> _______________________________________________
>> NZNOG mailing list
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>>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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