Fwd: 'Weird triage and sharing bugs to focus on' Redux
Mimi Yin <[email protected]> Thu, 13 Dec 2007 19:07:21 -0800
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.osaf.design |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============1681923997== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9-251109336 --Apple-Mail-9-251109336 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Jeffrey, Aparna, Morgan and I have been trying to decode the mystery behind all of the false positives popping into the NOW section. A few developments I wanted to bring to the attention of the list include: We had previously decided to pop every occurrence in a recurring series to NOW if a 'global or this and future edit' has been made. However, given that the byline doesn't currently give very much information about what's been changed, this can be really disorienting and not all that helpful. So I'm now wondering if we can instead *only* pop the NEXT OCCURRENCE when there's been a global edit. Examples of global / this and future edits include... + Changing the end date + Changing the recurrence rule + Title/Location/Notes field changes + Any Addressing stamp changes When specific occurrences are deleted, nothing should pop to NOW. This would be consistent with what we do when non-recurring items are deleted. Morgen, Jeffrey? does this sound reasonable to you? I've logged a bug to track this: https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/ show_bug.cgi?id=11661 It's still not clear however that global edits are the only reason behind the algae bloom of 'old' items popping into NOW. Some are non- recurring events. Others are items edited by *me*, but then get marked Unread. Still others are message items, so there might be some email layer thing going on. I *am* happy to report however that after reloading my data into the latest trunk build, I haven't seen any false positives in the NOW section of our 'TestPopIntoNow' test-collection...so long as email isn't involved. I am now able to reliably reproduce a case where if you email an item to yourself (doesn't have to be a recurring event), the item gets marked as Unread and pops to the top of NOW when you sync Mail. This is causing some fraction of the 'Pop to Now' bugs. https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11660 - Sending email to yourself in Chandler causes false-positive 'Unread' status and 'popping into Now. bkirsch, does this make sense to you? Mimi Begin forwarded message: > From: Mimi Yin <[email protected]> > Date: December 13, 2007 6:21:09 AM PST > To: Morgen Sagen <[email protected]> > Cc: "Jeffrey Harris" <[email protected]>, "Aparna Kadakia" > <[email protected]>, "Philippe Bossut" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: 'Weird triage and sharing bugs to focus on' Redux > > I'm not sure that global edits are the only thing that is making an > entire series pop to the top. My 'Summarize Design List' weekly, > anytime on Wednesday event series just popped to NOW and I think > it's because yesterday's occurrence was auto-triaged to NOW. I > haven't made any edits to it...and they all claim to be edited by > me. It's also not a message item. > > As for global edits, could we: Only pop the 'next occurrence' to > NOW as a representative of the entire series, if there is any kind > of global edit. > > We can probably get away with deletion not popping anything to NOW, > since we don't tell users about deletions of normal items either. > > I will summarize and forward this to the design list. > > On Dec 12, 2007, at 2:43 PM, Morgen Sagen wrote: > >> On 12/12/07, Jeffrey Harris <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hi Morgen, >>> >>>>> Today's fun "popping to NOW" adventure seems to because a master >>>>> event's recurrence rule spontaneously changed from >>>>> FREQ=WEEKLY;UNTIL=20070118T131500Z to >>>>> FREQ=WEEKLY;UNTIL=20070117T235959Z on the hub. Chatting with >>>>> Randy >>>>> about it now. >>>> >>>> So it ends up that Aparna (because I asked her to) made a change >>>> to this >>>> event with the Web UI. Even though the Web UI gave her an >>>> error, it did >>>> seem to make a this-and-future change to the series. This means a >>>> recurrence rule change on the master event (which both Mimi and >>>> Aparna >>>> received in their Chandlers), and so Chandler saw the change to the >>>> master and popped the entire series to NOW. >>>> >>>> So Jeffrey, It seems that perhaps Chandler does need to ignore >>>> certain >>>> changes on the master when it comes to popping the entire series >>>> to NOW? >>> >>> Sorry, I missed this thread till now. >>> >>> It doesn't seem obvious to me that it's more desirable to ignore >>> recurrence-rule end date changes than to pop the whole series to >>> now. >>> In many circumstances, I want to know about that kind of change >>> to the >>> rule (what, you canceled this Monday's rehearsal? I didn't >>> know...). >>> >>> I think here we're bumping into two issues: >>> - It's ugly to move the entire series to now, it would be much >>> cleaner >>> to have a master occurrence, perhaps it could be rendered >>> differently in >>> the detail view >>> - For all these pop to now problems, it's frustrating that the >>> end user >>> isn't able to answer the question, "What did the author of recent >>> changes actually change?" I think if we had UI to expose the log of >>> recent changes, it'd be much less annoying when we get seemingly >>> spurious popping to now. Of course this is a tall order. >>> >>> Anyway, with all that in mind, if the use cases we're seeing make >>> ignoring certain rule changes (when choosing whether to pop to now) >>> desirable, that's fine. Which rule changes should we ignore? >>> End date >>> change? The creation of an end date when the rule originally ran >>> indefinitely? How about the deletion of a single occurrence? >>> >>> All of those currently will pop the whole series to now. >> >> /me waits for Mimi to answer Jeffrey's question about what should and >> should not pop an entire series to Now. > --Apple-Mail-9-251109336 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 <html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "> Jeffrey, Aparna, Morgan and I have been trying to decode the mystery = behind all of the false positives popping into the NOW section. A few = developments I wanted to bring to the attention of the list = include:<div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>We had = previously decided to pop every occurrence in a recurring series to NOW = if a 'global or this and future edit' has been made. However, given that = the byline doesn't currently give very much information about what's = been changed, this can be really disorienting and not all that helpful. = So I'm now wondering if we can instead *only* pop the NEXT OCCURRENCE = when there's been a global edit. Examples of global / this and future = edits include...</div><div><br = class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>+ Changing the end = date</div><div>+ Changing the recurrence rule</div><div>+ = Title/Location/Notes field changes</div><div>+ Any Addressing stamp = changes</div><div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>When = specific occurrences are deleted, nothing should pop to NOW. This would = be consistent with what we do when non-recurring items are = deleted.</div><div><br = class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><div><div><b>Morgen, = Jeffrey? does this sound reasonable to you?</b></div><div><br = class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>I've logged a bug to track = this:=A0<a = href=3D"https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D11661">https:= //bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D11661</a></div><div><br = class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div></div></div><div>It's still not = clear however that global edits are the only reason behind the algae = bloom of 'old' items popping into NOW. Some are non-recurring events. = Others are items edited by *me*, but then get marked Unread. Still = others are message items, so there might be some email layer thing going = on.</div><div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>I *am* = happy to report however that after reloading my data into the latest = trunk build, I haven't seen any false positives in the NOW section of = our 'TestPopIntoNow' test-collection...so long as email isn't = involved.</div><div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>I = am now able to reliably reproduce a case where if you email an item to = yourself (doesn't have to be a recurring event), the item gets marked as = Unread and pops to the top of NOW when you sync Mail. This is causing = some fraction of the 'Pop to Now' bugs.</div><div><br = class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><div><a = href=3D"https://bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D11660">https:= //bugzilla.osafoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D11660</a> -=A0Sending = email to yourself in Chandler causes false-positive 'Unread' status and = 'popping into Now.</div><div><br = class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><b>bkirsch, does this make = sense to = you?</b></div><div><br></div></div><div>Mimi</div><div><br><div><div>Begin= forwarded message:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" = style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>From: = </b></font><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px = Helvetica">Mimi Yin <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>></fon= t></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: = 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" = color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: = #000000"><b>Date: </b></font><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" = style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">December 13, 2007 6:21:09 AM = PST</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" = size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: = #000000"><b>To: </b></font><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" = style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">Morgen Sagen <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>></font></div><div= style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" = style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Cc: </b></font><font = face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica">"Jeffrey = Harris" <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>>= ;, "Aparna Kadakia" <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>>,= "Philippe Bossut" <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>>= ;</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" = size=3D"3" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica; color: = #000000"><b>Subject: </b></font><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"3" = style=3D"font: 12.0px Helvetica"><b>Re: 'Weird triage and sharing bugs = to focus on' Redux</b></font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: = 14px; "><br></div> <div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I'm not sure that global edits = are the only thing that is making an entire series pop to the top. My = 'Summarize Design List' weekly, anytime on Wednesday event series just = popped to NOW and I think it's because yesterday's occurrence was = auto-triaged to NOW. I haven't made any edits to it...and they all claim = to be edited by me. It's also not a message item.</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: = 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><span = class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"-webkit-text-stroke-width: -1; ">As = for global edits, could we: Only pop the 'next occurrence' to NOW as a = representative of the entire series, if there is any kind of global = edit.</span></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">We can probably get away with deletion not popping = anything to NOW, since we don't tell users about deletions of normal = items either.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">I will summarize and forward this to the design = list.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">On Dec 12, 2007, at 2:43 PM, Morgen Sagen = wrote:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> = <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: = 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">On 12/12/07, Jeffrey Harris = <<a = href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>>= ; wrote:</div> <blockquote type=3D"cite"><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Hi = Morgen,</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> = <blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">Today's fun "popping to NOW" adventure seems to = because a master</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">event's recurrence rule = spontaneously changed from</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; = ">FREQ=3DWEEKLY;UNTIL=3D20070118T131500Z to</div><div style=3D"margin-top:= 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; = ">FREQ=3DWEEKLY;UNTIL=3D20070117T235959Z on the hub.<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Chatting with Randy</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">about it now.</div> </blockquote><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: = 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">So it = ends up that Aparna (because I asked her to) made a change to = this</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">event with the Web UI.<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Even though the Web UI gave = her an error, it did</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: = 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">seem to make a = this-and-future change to the series.<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>This means a</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">recurrence rule change on the master event (which = both Mimi and Aparna</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: = 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">received in their = Chandlers), and so Chandler saw the change to the</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">master and popped the entire series to = NOW.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">So Jeffrey, It seems that perhaps Chandler does need = to ignore certain</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">changes on the master when it = comes to popping the entire series to NOW?</div> </blockquote><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: = 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sorry, I = missed this thread till now.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: = 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">It doesn't seem obvious to me = that it's more desirable to ignore</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; = ">recurrence-rule end date changes than to pop the whole series to = now.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">In many circumstances, I want to = know about that kind of change to the</div><div style=3D"margin-top: = 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">rule = (what, you canceled this Monday's rehearsal?<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>I didn't know...).</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: = 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I think = here we're bumping into two issues:</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- It's ugly = to move the entire series to now, it would be much cleaner</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">to have a master occurrence, perhaps it could be = rendered differently in</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">the detail = view</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">- For all these pop to now = problems, it's frustrating that the end user</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">isn't able to answer the question, "What did the = author of recent</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">changes actually change?"<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>I think if we had UI to = expose the log of</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">recent changes, it'd be much = less annoying when we get seemingly</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">spurious = popping to now.<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Of = course this is a tall order.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: = 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Anyway, with all that in mind, = if the use cases we're seeing make</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">ignoring = certain rule changes (when choosing whether to pop to now)</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">desirable, that's fine.<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>Which rule changes should we = ignore?<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>End = date</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">change?<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>The creation of an end date = when the rule originally ran</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; = ">indefinitely?<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0 </span>How = about the deletion of a single occurrence?</div><div style=3D"margin-top: = 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; = min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">All of those = currently will pop the whole series to now.</div> </blockquote><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style=3D"margin-top: = 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">/me = waits for Mimi to answer Jeffrey's question about what should = and</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">should not pop an entire series = to Now.</div> </blockquote><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: = 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; = "><br></div> </blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-9-251109336-- --===============1681923997== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Open Source Applications Foundation "Design" mailing list http://lists.osafoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/design --===============1681923997==--