Re: NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a Bogus Business School

Unni, The strong and weak governments are relative term as you would have already figured out.  So, when I use the term weak or strong, I do so by comparing how much power government has compared to  the rights and powers of individual citizens.  So, a weak government is less intrusive into lives of its citizen and is largely concerned with  protection of  life and property of citizen from internal and external  threat and providing public services/infrastructure  that cannot be provided by without government guarantee (this is a topic on its own so I will stop here). Basically it is maintaining law and order. Rest everything is in the hands of private sectors. Private individuals and corporations make investment decision based upon demand and supply, and their ability to realize a profit or loss.  Government does not direct the investments and market regulation is non existent or minimum. All the ten natural rights (I have made a list of 10 natural rights) are protected by government and cannot make laws to dilute them in anyway. 

A strong government is just opposite.  A strong government control lot of things including things that are totally personal to individuals. India has for example laws to tell you what age
can you get married at.  How many kids you can have if you want to contest elections in certain states, or want to avail of government benefit. I call it an intrusive government. Can you explain why could I not have legally married at 20 and why did  I have to be 21 to marry, while progressives are suggesting teens day and night to have sex any any age?  Watch this video on women empowerment by Deepika Padukone to understand what I am saying. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtPv7IEhWRA

You see, in context of this telecom, why is our market so heavily regulated. Yet, service is very poor.  Banibrata  posted a link few days ago on TRAI wanting to get powers to regulate the IM applications. What is it,  if it is not a power grab?

So, in my writing a weak government is one that minds its own core  business and leaves the rest upon the citizens and corporations to figure out. The problem is that when government is very powerful, corporations use government to control citizen.  Airtal  wants to use TRAI to control the IM applications so that it can realize more  revenues.  When corporation take control of the agencies that are supposed to be regulate the corporations, it is called regulatory capture. It happens sooner or later. Then basically, the corporations writes regulations and the regulatory agencies simply put the seal on them.

Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey

Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 06:15:05 +0530
Subject: Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a Bogus Business School
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
CC: india-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]; [email protected]

I see merits in both PoV. But tell me something, what exactly do you mean when you differentiate as a strong government or weak government. Can you give an example of both....???

How is it decided or what benchmarks the performance of governance as strong or weak ?
@bhi
that's from my YUreka handheld, excuse the brevity...!!!
On 30-Mar-2015 2:27 am, "Ratnendra Pandey" <[email protected]> wrote:



Ok Banibrata,  so this discussion has already degenerated into a class warfare, between the haves and have nots? I am assuming next you will say you need government to protect have nots. Even though the experience points to the fact that when govt control is strong, a few rich, wealthy, and politically connected people contole govt machinery rendering the middle class and poor at the mercy of government killing free enterprise and risk taking. 

Why can't communusts and socialists understand that rich and powerful eventually take control and hide behind the government machinery ? Giving  government enormous power only makes life difficult for have nots and Middle class. Weaker the government, weaker the control rich have over have nots.
Look for these two word 

Regulatory capture
Corporatism 

Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey

From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 01:33:39 +0530
Subject: Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a Bogus Business School
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]; india-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]

Wish I could unlearn to reach a childlike stage of innocence to believe the following statement to be true, alas many of use are doomed by what life has taught us.

"...when information is allowed to flow freely, good information and bad 
information clash and force people to evaluate them and go by what works
 for them..."

Sorry, hate to burst that little utopian bubble, especially in context of India (and perhaps much of the world as we know it today). That is, in all probability, a just a convenient little argument that seeks to protect the "information control", while it is still in the hands of the haves. The have-nots shall remain "fools", for the information deliberately presented to them has been "coloured" by those who could. Government needs the businesses, and the businesses need worker ants. Information (and intelligence) is what keeps the control, in the present form. 



On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Ratnendra Pandey <pandey-PkbjNfxxIASIwRZHo2/[email protected]> wrote:



From the belief system that you are operating from, you expect government to protect fools. It is just not possible even if you put a zipper on everyone's mouth. 

What you cannot seem to appreciate is that when information is allowed to flow freely, good information and bad information clash and force people to evaluate them and go by what works for them. Users of the information generally cross check quality of information with their own experience and with information from others. This is how false hoods are challenged and smashed. 

Yes, People with higher sense  of superiority and carrying some kind of divine burden to help fools do cause more damage.

Free flow of information makes it easy to fight falsehood. It also makes people, including the fools, 
smart user of information once they learn how to analyze and critique an information.

Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey

From: [email protected]
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 00:42:41 +0530
Subject: Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a Bogus Business School
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]; india-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]

Is it not government's job to protect the ordinary citizen against harm ? I do not see, how suing a city that allows snake-oil salesman to operate is wrong ?
Where is the sense of superiority in doing something that one considers the right thing to do ? One doesn't need to be an expert in calling a spade a spade !
And is Sarbajit the first one to do so ? Shivam Vij, Maheshwar Peri, Outlook360, Caravan, IBN-Live are wrong in their assessment ?
Fair enough, it is possible that all of them are wrong, but why did IIPM sue Google ? It's a search engine. If that isn't asinine, then I fail to understand, how is suing city is -- given that the city (government) had an obligation.

Refresher:
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/dot-orders-blocking-of-73-urls-with-content-critical-of-iipm-including-a-ugc-notice-report/373152-11.html
http://www.livemint.com/Specials/13TE2UEtexMf1GDeEt5rCP/Maheshwer-Peris-long-way-around.html

Wasn't the 'freedom of speech and expression' of Shivam, Maheswar etc. infringed upon ? Taking away the freedom of someone engaging in highly questionable business, just by raising questions is not defamatory. If the raised questions have believable answers, there is no reputation tarnished and no damage done. I am no expert in jurisprudence, but my casual reading of material around the 'First Amendment' and it's relation to the 'Defamation' laws seems to indicate the superiority of the former, in the latter being no 'excuse'... And, BTW, I've to admit that I did have to refresh myself regarding this matter using Wikipedia :-)



On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 12:15 AM, Ratnendra Pandey <pandey-PkbjNfxxIASIwRZHo2/[email protected]> wrote:



Banibratta, the problem is some one with heightened sense of superiority thinking of himself snake oil expert taking absurd step like asking all snakes to be killed. Or worst, suing city for allowing a snake salesman to open a shop on footpath and holding it responsible for fake oil. 

There are way to fight false information. But over legislation and taking away others freedom is not one of them. 

Sincerely, 
Ratnendra Pandey

From: [email protected]
Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 23:57:32 +0530
Subject: Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a Bogus Business School
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]; india-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]

Somehow reading this response gives me the impression that  calling out someone selling snake-oil is a bad thing. If someone is making money by hook or crook, it is their prerogative (thanks to their superior, even if sinister intelligence) and that it is none of your business to meddle with it ! Pretty much sums up 'capitalism in it's present form -- BTW' !! I hope that I've misunderstood the intent and the jist.. :-)

Your last statement is what I find no fault with, and tend to agree every bit - strangely, with every passing year, we only seem to grow closer in our attempts to emulate the country of 'milk n honey' (or the 'corn fed democracy'), where what is free-speech and who is free to indulge in free-speech is determined by who has the money (& wields the stick).


On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Ratnendra Pandey <pandey-PkbjNfxxIASIwRZHo2/[email protected]> wrote:



Banibratta, personally I believe no one is idiot. But, there are many who disagree with me. They think making laws, suppressing personal freedom, fighting frivolous lawsuits, threatening knowledge makers and information carriers is their pious duty. Such people operate in belief that somehow idiots are incapable of learning on their own. I disagree with that kind of thinking. I think everyone should be given an opportunity to learn. We should present the facts and logic and let information consumers decide for themselves. 

Unfortunately, india operates on the false logic of suppressing speech to protect idiots, which govt thinks the citizen of India are. Else why do we restrictions on books, films, speech and any information that someone objects to.

Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey

From: [email protected]
Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 18:30:57 +0530
Subject: Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a Bogus Business School
To: [email protected]
CC: [email protected]; india-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]

Not quite sure which part of the article gives anyone the impression that there is any kind of legal sanction against Wikipedia ?

Quality of journalism these days is definitely questionable, and this article isn't a shining exception either. However, the article seemed factual  and in my view, subtly tells us what "we" already know, i.e.everything one reads on the internet is not true (with reality being quite to the contrary), and clearly Wikipedia is no exception, however what is ?

The fact that people who have had a long association with the internet, the IT world, have had access to unlimited flow of conspiracy theories (many that seem to be backed by extremely strong reason) have managed to overcome their naivety, and are thus careful in trusting "sources of knowledge" (including news papers, blogs and collaborative online encyclopedias). Heck, for that matter, I think all of us "know better" (or we believe that we know better) about what the text-books teach us. Manipulating people through misinformation is nothing new. However, are the rest really "idiots" ? 

India GII is a very tolerant list, which is good. It is a 
reflection of what a good society should be, giving everyone a chance to
 air their views - however it is still no justification for making 
personal attacks. It gives lot more credibility to statements like 
"misguided activists and diabolical legal heads..." if there were 
anything to substantiate such views, else it is nothing more than rant 
and hot air. 


On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 7:51 AM, Ratnendra Pandey <[email protected]> wrote:



This news article is more misleading than the advertisement by school in question. It seeks to create  an impression of some kind of legal sanction against Wikipadea. Am I missing something? At the end of the day it is privilege of a website to decide who keeps an admin and editing privileges. So what is the issue here?

As for some people duped by the said business school, how is that fault of wikipadea? If the said school had a giant billboard next to a road, should the state,or pad, or nhai be responsible for what is written on the bill board.

God save india from these misguided activists and diabolical legal heads like Sarabjit, and the people who write laws that even give some credence to the filings by Sarabjit, and allow strained legal system to be further strained.


I do not see what is so difficult to understand in the idea that you cannot legislate intelligence nor you can protect an idiot no matter how you regulate. Crooks will find ways to dupe fools. It is in best interest of idiots to acquire some intellegence and learn from there own mistakes and from those of others.

Sincerely,
Ratnendra Pandey


From: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 10:58:18 +0530
To: [email protected]
CC: India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]
Subject: Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a Bogus Business School

Kudos, for a job well done.

On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:40 PM, sarbajit roy <[email protected]> wrote:
Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a Bogus Business School



http://www.newsweek.com/2015/04/03/manipulating-wikipedia-promote-bogus-business-school-316133.html

By Alastair Sloan / March 24, 2015 12:20 PM EDT



Vickram and/or veteran Wikimedians on this channel can know that on 13

March 2015 I had already filed a formal IT Act case concerning

'inter-alia' these gangs of rogue extortionate Wikipedia

administrators hiding behind their anonymity and multiple fictitious

IDs and who have given Indian Wikimedians a bad name.



In my complaint I have asked for "Wifione" to be unmasked and

prosecuted for ruining the lives of thousands of Indian students. My

action was preceded by 2 years of dialog by our side with fellow

Wikipedians / WMF and a 3 month action in Switzerland brought by WMF

against me which then gave me a cause of action to file the IT case in

India.



In our instances, we were subjected to illegal demands and financial

threats since 2013 and my dialog with Wikimedia Foundation's legal

counsel repeatedly ran into a brick wall of solid indifference and

evasions to protect their anonymous admins. It was only thanks to a

proactive Indian board member that things started moving and 5 old

time Wikimedia Admins were eventually "globally banned" in December

2014 as a result of coordinated efforts between veteran members of the

WIKIMEDIA community who had seceded in 2008 from the WMF's "projects"

after realizing what d****b*gs they were.



Sarbajit



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-- 
regards,
Banibrata
http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
http://twitter.com/edgeliving


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-- 
regards,
Banibrata
http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
http://twitter.com/edgeliving

 		 	   		  


-- 
regards,
Banibrata
http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
http://twitter.com/edgeliving

 		 	   		  


-- 
regards,
Banibrata
http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
http://twitter.com/edgeliving

 		 	   		  


-- 
regards,
Banibrata
http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
http://twitter.com/edgeliving

 		 	   		  

_______________________________________________

India-gii mailing list

India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]

https://lists.india-gii.org/mailman/listinfo/india-gii

_______________________________________________
India-gii mailing list
India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]
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