Re: NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a Bogus Business School

Who is WifiOne?

Any ideas?

On Wed, 1 Apr 2015 08:00 Vickram Crishna <v1clist-/[email protected]> wrote:

> An interesting quote from Lenin, and an equally interesting
> interpretation. Freedom from private ownership, in my reading of the same
> quote, nowhere implies government ownership. In fact, he specifically talks
> about joint stock ownership. For the rest, the field was open.
>
> In the matter of the airwaves, the Supreme Court has ruled that public
> ownership must prevail, but the  interpretation has been stoutly read as
> government control.
>
> That state may indeed wither away one day, but if it doesn't learn to
> cherry pick causes, where to keep guidance, where to keep control, where to
> keep ownership, that's going to take a long time.
>
> Note that in India, other than joint stock and government ownership, there
> is no vision about other forms of public ownership. Cooperatives and
> movements have been sidelined, and unions almost fully subverted by
> political parties. The failures in the corporate sector to accept a
> meaningful share of the responsibility for the public weal also have little
> redressal.
>
> Vickram
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
> ------------------------------
>   *From*:"Ratnendra Pandey" <[email protected]>
> *Date*:Wed, 1 Apr, 2015 at 7:36 am
>
> *Subject*:Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a
> Bogus Business School
>
> Banibrata,
>
> You wrote:
> I hope you are not trying to side step the what I'd questioned that boils
> down to:
> - Why should 'free-speech' be prerogative of some while not be of others ?
> That's pretty feudalistic, come to think of it, and it is what draws the
> class lines.
> - Why should government not protect the weak ?
>
> Your FIRST QUESTION: - Why should 'free-speech' be
> prerogative of some while not be of others ?
> That's pretty feudalistic, come to think of it, and it is what draws the
> class lines.
>
> OK, let me answer this:
>
> The following is exact quote from the V. I. Lenin  Draft Resolution On
> Freedom Of The Press
>  https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/nov/04.htm
>
> [QUOTE]
> For the bourgeoisie, freedom of the press meant freedom for the rich to
> publish and for the capitalists to control the newspapers, a practice
> which
> in all countries, including even the freest, produced a corrupt press.
>
> For the workers’ and peasants’ government, freedom of the press means
> liberation of the press from capitalist oppression, and public ownership
> of
> paper mills and printing presses; equal right for public groups of a
> certain
> size (say, numbering 10,000) to a fair share of newsprint stocks and a
> corresponding quantity of printers’ labour.
>
> [UNQUOTE]
>
> For the communists and the socialist, the idea of free press is a full
> control of  government over means of production and distribution of
> information, apparently to liberate the press from capitalist oppression,
> or
> to use your words, from the "feudalistic" influence.
>
> Basically what communists and socialist wants is Government to control
> information and citizens to remain at mercy of government agencies, like
> censors board, press council of India etc.  Sorry, this is not called
> freedom of speech. We have tried this before with disastrous results. And
> also, the less said the better about the state of media in Russia and
> China,
> where there is very little freedom to  private  media. We do not want to
> copy the Russia and China model into India.
>
> Your SECOND QUESTION: - Why should government not protect the weak ?
>
> Answer to the above:
> Government should sure protect weak but should not make every one else
> weaker in the process.  The idea of helping weak should not mean making
> every one else weaker by  taking away peoples  personal liberties by
> over-legislation or over-regulation, or prohibition of activities, Helping
> weak should not mean  stealing money from one group of people and
> transferring to another group by taxation, nationalization,  or creating
> inflation, or by reducing personal freedom by other means.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Ratnendra Pandey
>
> ------------------------------
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 10:22:56 +0530
> Subject: Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a
> Bogus Business School
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected]; india-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]
>
> Ratnendra,
>
> Perhaps you are reading too much between the lines.Did I write anywhere
> that the entire class businessmen, entrepreneurs, industrialists are
> perpetrators and evil, and entire middle/lower class (economically and
> socially) strata of society needs protection from the evil class or
> anything of that sort, where government is to play a role ? Where is this
> "warfare" ? I hope you are not trying to side step the what I'd questioned
> that boils down to:
> - Why should 'free-speech' be prerogative of some while not be of others ?
> That's pretty feudalistic, come to think of it, and it is what draws the
> class lines.
> - Why should government not protect the weak ?
>
> Strange, don't you think that governments goes out on an arm and a leg to
> protect sick industries (bailouts), weak businesses built on wrong premises
> and false promises, yet should not come to the protection of the masses it
> represents when they need protection. Real world is clearly not digital,
> i.e. far from being "binary", it is based on system of "irrational numbers"
> (mathematically speaking).
>
> I see no reason to view economy and governance with polarized glasses,
> where you can see certain things bright when viewed one way, and same
> things dark when viewed another way. There are honest businesses, who do
> business with integrity and then there are others who do it at a great
> economic and social cost in a highly unfair manner. On one hand, you
> question "society" (and I hope you'd not disagree that Sarbajit, Peri etc.
> are part of this society) from raising voice as per the same free-speech /
> freedom-of-expression that you seem to espouse (which is a good thing), but
> on the other hand also question "government's" role to keep the
> checks-n-balances in place. Now who wouldn't like to 'bake the cake and
> have it too', eh ? :-) However, there is a need to be fairer than that.
>
> cheers,
> Banibrata
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 2:27 AM, Ratnendra Pandey <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Ok Banibrata,  so this discussion has already degenerated into a class
> warfare, between the haves and have nots? I am assuming next you will say
> you need government to protect have nots. Even though the experience points
> to the fact that when govt control is strong, a few rich, wealthy, and
> politically connected people contole govt machinery rendering the middle
> class and poor at the mercy of government killing free enterprise and risk
> taking.
>
> Why can't communusts and socialists understand that rich and powerful
> eventually take control and hide behind the government machinery ?
> Giving  government enormous power only makes life difficult for have nots
> and Middle class. Weaker the government, weaker the control rich have over
> have nots.
> Look for these two word
>
> Regulatory capture
> Corporatism
>
> Sincerely,
> Ratnendra Pandey
>
> ------------------------------
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 01:33:39 +0530
>
> Subject: Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a
> Bogus Business School
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected]; india-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]
>
> Wish I could unlearn to reach a childlike stage of innocence to believe
> the following statement to be true, alas many of use are doomed by what
> life has taught us.
>
> "...when information is allowed to flow freely, good information and bad
> information clash and force people to evaluate them and go by what works
> for them..."
>
> Sorry, hate to burst that little utopian bubble, especially in context of
> India (and perhaps much of the world as we know it today). That is, in all
> probability, a just a convenient little argument that seeks to protect the
> "information control", while it is still in the hands of the haves. The
> have-nots shall remain "fools", for the information deliberately presented
> to them has been "coloured" by those who could. Government needs the
> businesses, and the businesses need worker ants. Information (and
> intelligence) is what keeps the control, in the present form.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 12:57 AM, Ratnendra Pandey <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> From the belief system that you are operating from, you expect government
> to protect fools. It is just not possible even if you put a zipper on
> everyone's mouth.
>
> What you cannot seem to appreciate is that when information is allowed to
> flow freely, good information and bad information clash and force people to
> evaluate them and go by what works for them. Users of the information
> generally cross check quality of information with their own experience and
> with information from others. This is how false hoods are challenged and
> smashed.
>
> Yes, People with higher sense  of superiority and carrying some kind of
> divine burden to help fools do cause more damage.
>
> Free flow of information makes it easy to fight falsehood. It also makes
> people, including the fools,
> smart user of information once they learn how to analyze and critique an
> information.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ratnendra Pandey
>
> ------------------------------
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 00:42:41 +0530
>
> Subject: Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a
> Bogus Business School
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected]; india-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]
>
> Is it not government's job to protect the ordinary citizen against harm ?
> I do not see, how suing a city that allows snake-oil salesman to operate is
> wrong ?
> Where is the sense of superiority in doing something that one considers
> the right thing to do ? One doesn't need to be an expert in calling a spade
> a spade !
> And is Sarbajit the first one to do so ? Shivam Vij, Maheshwar Peri,
> Outlook360, Caravan, IBN-Live are wrong in their assessment ?
> Fair enough, it is possible that all of them are wrong, but why did IIPM
> sue Google ? It's a search engine. If that isn't asinine, then I fail to
> understand, how is suing city is -- given that the city (government) had an
> obligation.
>
> Refresher:
>
> http://ibnlive.in.com/news/dot-orders-blocking-of-73-urls-with-content-critical-of-iipm-including-a-ugc-notice-report/373152-11.html
>
> http://www.livemint.com/Specials/13TE2UEtexMf1GDeEt5rCP/Maheshwer-Peris-long-way-around.html
>
> Wasn't the 'freedom of speech and expression' of Shivam, Maheswar etc.
> infringed upon ? Taking away the freedom of someone engaging in highly
> questionable business, just by raising questions is not defamatory. If the
> raised questions have believable answers, there is no reputation tarnished
> and no damage done. I am no expert in jurisprudence, but my casual reading
> of material around the 'First Amendment' and it's relation to the
> 'Defamation' laws seems to indicate the superiority of the former, in the
> latter being no 'excuse'... And, BTW, I've to admit that I did have to
> refresh myself regarding this matter using Wikipedia :-)
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 12:15 AM, Ratnendra Pandey <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Banibratta, the problem is some one with heightened sense of superiority
> thinking of himself snake oil expert taking absurd step like asking all
> snakes to be killed. Or worst, suing city for allowing a snake salesman to
> open a shop on footpath and holding it responsible for fake oil.
>
> There are way to fight false information. But over legislation and taking
> away others freedom is not one of them.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ratnendra Pandey
>
> ------------------------------
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 23:57:32 +0530
>
> Subject: Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a
> Bogus Business School
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected]; india-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]
>
> Somehow reading this response gives me the impression that  calling out
> someone selling snake-oil is a bad thing. If someone is making money by
> hook or crook, it is their prerogative (thanks to their superior, even if
> sinister intelligence) and that it is none of your business to meddle with
> it ! Pretty much sums up 'capitalism in it's present form -- BTW' !! I hope
> that I've misunderstood the intent and the jist.. :-)
>
> Your last statement is what I find no fault with, and tend to agree every
> bit - strangely, with every passing year, we only seem to grow closer in
> our attempts to emulate the country of 'milk n honey' (or the 'corn fed
> democracy'), where what is free-speech and who is free to indulge in
> free-speech is determined by who has the money (& wields the stick).
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Ratnendra Pandey <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Banibratta, personally I believe no one is idiot. But, there are many who
> disagree with me. They think making laws, suppressing personal freedom,
> fighting frivolous lawsuits, threatening knowledge makers and information
> carriers is their pious duty. Such people operate in belief that somehow
> idiots are incapable of learning on their own. I disagree with that kind of
> thinking. I think everyone should be given an opportunity to learn. We
> should present the facts and logic and let information consumers decide for
> themselves.
>
> Unfortunately, india operates on the false logic of suppressing speech to
> protect idiots, which govt thinks the citizen of India are. Else why do we
> restrictions on books, films, speech and any information that someone
> objects to.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ratnendra Pandey
>
> ------------------------------
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Sat, 28 Mar 2015 18:30:57 +0530
> Subject: Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a
> Bogus Business School
> To: [email protected]
> CC: [email protected]; india-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]
>
>
> Not quite sure which part of the article gives anyone the impression that
> there is any kind of legal sanction against Wikipedia ?
>
> Quality of journalism these days is definitely questionable, and this
> article isn't a shining exception either. However, the article seemed
> factual  and in my view, subtly tells us what "we" already know,
> i.e.everything one reads on the internet is not true (with reality being
> quite to the contrary), and clearly Wikipedia is no exception, however what
> is ?
>
> The fact that people who have had a long association with the internet,
> the IT world, have had access to unlimited flow of conspiracy theories
> (many that seem to be backed by extremely strong reason) have managed to
> overcome their naivety, and are thus careful in trusting "sources of
> knowledge" (including news papers, blogs and collaborative online
> encyclopedias). Heck, for that matter, I think all of us "know better" (or
> we believe that we know better) about what the text-books teach us.
> Manipulating people through misinformation is nothing new. However, are the
> rest really "idiots" ?
>
> India GII is a very tolerant list, which is good. It is a reflection of
> what a good society should be, giving everyone a chance to air their views
> - however it is still no justification for making personal attacks. It
> gives lot more credibility to statements like "misguided activists and
> diabolical legal heads..." if there were anything to substantiate such
> views, else it is nothing more than rant and hot air.
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 7:51 AM, Ratnendra Pandey <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> This news article is more misleading than the advertisement by school in
> question. It seeks to create  an impression of some kind of legal sanction
> against Wikipadea. Am I missing something? At the end of the day it is
> privilege of a website to decide who keeps an admin and editing privileges.
> So what is the issue here?
>
> As for some people duped by the said business school, how is that fault of
> wikipadea? If the said school had a giant billboard next to a road, should
> the state,or pad, or nhai be responsible for what is written on the bill
> board.
>
> God save india from these misguided activists and diabolical legal heads
> like Sarabjit, and the people who write laws that even give some credence
> to the filings by Sarabjit, and allow strained legal system to be further
> strained.
>
>
> I do not see what is so difficult to understand in the idea that you
> cannot legislate intelligence nor you can protect an idiot no matter how
> you regulate. Crooks will find ways to dupe fools. It is in best interest
> of idiots to acquire some intellegence and learn from there own mistakes
> and from those of others.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ratnendra Pandey
>
>
> ------------------------------
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2015 10:58:18 +0530
> To: [email protected]
> CC: India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]
> Subject: Re: [india-gii] NEWSWEEK: Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a
> Bogus Business School
>
>
> Kudos, for a job well done.
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 9:40 PM, sarbajit roy <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> Manipulating Wikipedia to Promote a Bogus Business School
>
>
> http://www.newsweek.com/2015/04/03/manipulating-wikipedia-promote-bogus-business-school-316133.html
> By Alastair Sloan / March 24, 2015 12:20 PM EDT
>
> Vickram and/or veteran Wikimedians on this channel can know that on 13
> March 2015 I had already filed a formal IT Act case concerning
> 'inter-alia' these gangs of rogue extortionate Wikipedia
> administrators hiding behind their anonymity and multiple fictitious
> IDs and who have given Indian Wikimedians a bad name.
>
> In my complaint I have asked for "Wifione" to be unmasked and
> prosecuted for ruining the lives of thousands of Indian students. My
> action was preceded by 2 years of dialog by our side with fellow
> Wikipedians / WMF and a 3 month action in Switzerland brought by WMF
> against me which then gave me a cause of action to file the IT case in
> India.
>
> In our instances, we were subjected to illegal demands and financial
> threats since 2013 and my dialog with Wikimedia Foundation's legal
> counsel repeatedly ran into a brick wall of solid indifference and
> evasions to protect their anonymous admins. It was only thanks to a
> proactive Indian board member that things started moving and 5 old
> time Wikimedia Admins were eventually "globally banned" in December
> 2014 as a result of coordinated efforts between veteran members of the
> WIKIMEDIA community who had seceded in 2008 from the WMF's "projects"
> after realizing what d****b*gs they were.
>
> Sarbajit
>
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>
>
>
> --
> regards,
> Banibrata
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
> http://twitter.com/edgeliving
>
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>
>
>
> --
> regards,
> Banibrata
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
> http://twitter.com/edgeliving
>
>
>
>
> --
> regards,
> Banibrata
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
> http://twitter.com/edgeliving
>
>
>
>
> --
> regards,
> Banibrata
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
> http://twitter.com/edgeliving
>
>
>
>
> --
> regards,
> Banibrata
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
> http://twitter.com/edgeliving
>
>
>
>
> --
> regards,
> Banibrata
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/bdutta
> http://twitter.com/edgeliving
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