Re: What is bias? (Re: should we continue?)
parminder <[email protected]> Mon, 14 Aug 2017 12:18:32 +0530
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2305140345657038899== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------0D0265EDD512A7B03CF9955F" Content-Language: en-GB This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0D0265EDD512A7B03CF9955F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit or/ and, this one http://www.businessinsider.com/female-google-employee-responds-to-james-damore-memo-2017-8 "You've read the memo, right? I'm not a female engineer, but I've talked to a lot of female engineers. Yesterday the women in the Ads group got together with one of the directors of engineering. She organized a sort of listening session and we kind of all just sat down and talked about it. I think it's just really hard to have someone make baseless claims about your abilities in the workplace, and I think that's what happened. And it's hard to not feel like that's an attack on you personally, and on us collectively. We talk a lot about how women at Google are a minority. We're not a minority [outside of Google], but we kind of are [inside]. But to have us all lumped into one sort of category like that and to have such a baseless claim made about who we are, and to have it positioned as fact -- as scientific fact -- I don't know how we could feel anything but attacked by that." parminder On Monday 14 August 2017 12:07 PM, Vickram Crishna wrote: > "I'm a woman in computer science. Let me ladysplain the Google memo to > you." > <https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/8/11/16130452/google-memo-women-tech-biology-sexism> > > > > > > > > > "I'm a woman in computer science. Let me ladysplain the Google > memo to you." > > Don't be taken in by the memo’s faux-reasonable tone. > > > > <https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/8/11/16130452/google-memo-women-tech-biology-sexism> > > > Don't take my word for it, try this one. > > Vickram > ________ > Adlai Stevenson was once told, "All thinking people are with you." > "That's not enough," he replied, "I need a majority." > ---------- > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 at 11:25 a.m., Vickram Crishna > <v1clist-/[email protected]> wrote: > Sorry, this was intended for the list, but deepest apologies, > possibly the auto reply options have got modified in the recent > Yahoo mail upgrade. > > Now, to reply to the list, I must hit Reply All, then delete the > sender from the addresses, to avoid duplication. > > Vickram > ________ > Adlai Stevenson was once told, "All thinking people are with you." > "That's not enough," he replied, "I need a majority." > ---------- > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 at 11:22 a.m., Vickram Crishna > <v1clist-/[email protected]> wrote: > Gender bias exists across the board, and is not confined to > the information technology sector. > > However, without necessarily clinging to the IT label, most > new business companies are strongly weighted towards a young > management and work force, I think, and this is true in many > parts of the world. It is only natural, while one should not > depend on it, that it is these companies who want to break > traditionalist stereotypes, especially those that conflict > with the bare statement of equality. > > Now, let's assume that, superficially, the ex-employee is as > competent and sociable as anyone else. Whoever received the > memo is probably going to give it some thought, even a day or > two, while deciding whether to come crashing down like a ton > of bricks. Then it went viral, and hard luck. > > I don't think that left and right comes into it, unless right > is being equated with a state of extreme ignorance about > genetics and evolutionary possibilities, which is rather > unlikely to be the whole truth, no matter how many trolls try > hard to evangelise it. > > Vickram > ________ > Adlai Stevenson was once told, "All thinking people are with > you." > "That's not enough," he replied, "I need a majority." > ---------- > > On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 at 10:34 p.m., Ratnendra Pandey > <[email protected]> wrote: > _______________________________________________ > India-gii mailing list > India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected] > <mailto:India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]> > https://lists.india-gii.org/mailman/listinfo/india-gii > > > > _______________________________________________ > India-gii mailing list > India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected] > https://lists.india-gii.org/mailman/listinfo/india-gii --------------0D0265EDD512A7B03CF9955F Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <p><font face="Verdana">or/ and, this one</font></p> <pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.businessinsider.com/female-google-employee-responds-to-james-damore-memo-2017-8">http://www.businessinsider.com/female-google-employee-responds-to-james-damore-memo-2017-8</a> "You've read the memo, right? I'm not a female engineer, but I've talked to a lot of female engineers. Yesterday the women in the Ads group got together with one of the directors of engineering. She organized a sort of listening session and we kind of all just sat down and talked about it. I think it's just really hard to have someone make baseless claims about your abilities in the workplace, and I think that's what happened. And it's hard to not feel like that's an attack on you personally, and on us collectively. We talk a lot about how women at Google are a minority. We're not a minority [outside of Google], but we kind of are [inside]. But to have us all lumped into one sort of category like that and to have such a baseless claim made about who we are, and to have it positioned as fact -- as scientific fact -- I don't know how we could feel anything but attacked by that." parminder </pre> <br> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Monday 14 August 2017 12:07 PM, Vickram Crishna wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:172268381.1326257.1502692655786-sAHhhX/[email protected]"><a id="linkextractor__1502692633763" data-yahoo-extracted-link="true" href="https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/8/11/16130452/google-memo-women-tech-biology-sexism" class="lEnhancr_1502692635340" moz-do-not-send="true">"I'm a woman in computer science. Let me ladysplain the Google memo to you."</a> <div id="lEnhancr_1502692635340" class="yahoo-link-enhancr-card yahoo-link-enhancr-cardSize-medium yahoo-link-enhancr-cardType-yenhancr yahoo-link-enhancr-cardCategory- ymail-preserve-class ymail-preserve-style" style="max-width: 400px; font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; position: relative;" data-url="https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/8/11/16130452/google-memo-women-tech-biology-sexism" data-type="LINK_ENHANCR_ATTACHMENT_TYPE_INLINE" data-category="" data-embed-url="" data-size="medium" contenteditable="false"> <a href="https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/8/11/16130452/google-memo-women-tech-biology-sexism" style="text-decoration:none !important; color: #000 !important;" class="yahoo-enhancr-cardlink" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer" moz-do-not-send="true"> <table class="card-wrapper yahoo-ignore-table" style="max-width:400px;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td width="400"> <table class="card yahoo-ignore-table" style="max-width:400px;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" width="100%"> <tbody> <tr> <td class="card-primary-image-cell" style="background:#000 url('https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/a4mEuIlcWs7wq9zab0wQ2g--/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3PTQwMDtoPTIwMDthcHBpZD1pZXh0cmFjdA--/https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/AijWlKEXsRu8jQMpJsLTdEnJCJI=/0x285:4654x2871/1080x600/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/56149867/GettyImages_828896290.1502460066.jpg.cf.jpg') no-repeat center center;background-size:cover;height:200px;position:relative;" valign="top" background="https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/a4mEuIlcWs7wq9zab0wQ2g--/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3PTQwMDtoPTIwMDthcHBpZD1pZXh0cmFjdA--/https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/AijWlKEXsRu8jQMpJsLTdEnJCJI=/0x285:4654x2871/1080x600/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/56149867/GettyImages_828896290.1502460066.jpg.cf.jpg" bgcolor="#000000"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><v:rect fill="true" stroke="false" style="width:400px;height:218px;position:absolute;top:0;left:0;"><v:fill type="frame" color="#000000" src="https://s.yimg.com/lo/api/res/1.2/a4mEuIlcWs7wq9zab0wQ2g--/Zmk9ZmlsbDt3PTQwMDtoPTIwMDthcHBpZD1pZXh0cmFjdA--/https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/AijWlKEXsRu8jQMpJsLTdEnJCJI=/0x285:4654x2871/1080x600/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/56149867/GettyImages_828896290.1502460066.jpg.cf.jpg"/></v:rect><![endif]--> <table class="yahoo-ignore-table" valign="top" style="width:100%;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="background:transparent url('https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/12/overlay-tile.png') repeat left top;height:200px;" valign="top" background="https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/12/overlay-tile.png" bgcolor="transparent"> <!--[if gte mso 9]><v:rect fill="true" stroke="false" style="width:400px;height:218px;position:absolute;top:-18px;left:0;"><v:fill type="pattern" color="#000000" src="https://s.yimg.com/nq/storm/assets/enhancrV2/12/overlay-tile.png"/><v:textbox inset="0,0,20px,0"><![endif]--> <table class="yahoo-ignore-table" style="width:100%;height:185px;min-height:185px;" height="185"> <tbody> <tr> <td class="card-richInfo2" style="text-align:left;text-align:left;padding:15px 0 0 15px;vertical-align:top;"> <br> </td> <td class="card-actions" style="text-align:right;padding:15px 15px 0 0;vertical-align:top;"> <br> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <!--[if gte mso 9]></v:textbox></v:rect><![endif]--> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </td> </tr> <tr> <td> <table class="card-info yahoo-ignore-table" style="background:#fff;position:relative;z-index:2;width:95%;max-width:380px;border:1px solid #e0e4e9;border-bottom:3px solid ;margin-top:-40px;margin-left:auto;margin-right:auto;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" align="center" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td style="background-color:#ffffff;padding:16px 0 16px 12px;vertical-align:top;"> <br> </td> <td style="vertical-align:middle;padding:16px 12px;width:99%;"> <h2 class="card-title" style="font-size: 16px; line-height:19px; margin:0 0 4px 0;font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">"I'm a woman in computer science. Let me ladysplain the Google memo to you."</h2> <p class="card-description" style="font-size:11px;line-height:15px;color:#999;">Don't be taken in by the memo’s faux-reasonable tone.</p> </td> <td style="text-align:right;padding:16px 12px 16px 0;"> <br> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </a> </div> <div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1502692633823"><br> </div> <div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1502692640169">Don't take my word for it, try this one. <br> <br> <div id="ymail_android_signature">Vickram<br> ________<br> Adlai Stevenson was once told, "All thinking people are with you." <br> "That's not enough," he replied, "I need a majority."<br> ----------</div> <br> <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 20px 0;"> <div style="font-family:Roboto, sans-serif; color:#6D00F6;"> <div>On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 at 11:25 a.m., Vickram Crishna</div> <div><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:v1clist-/[email protected]"><v1clist-/[email protected]></a> wrote:</div> </div> <div style="padding: 10px 0 0 20px; margin: 10px 0 0 0; border-left: 1px solid #6D00F6;"> Sorry, this was intended for the list, but deepest apologies, possibly the auto reply options have got modified in the recent Yahoo mail upgrade. <div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1502690086382"><br> </div> <div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1502690087531">Now, to reply to the list, I must hit Reply All, then delete the sender from the addresses, to avoid duplication. <br> <br> <div id="ymail_android_signature">Vickram<br> ________<br> Adlai Stevenson was once told, "All thinking people are with you." <br> "That's not enough," he replied, "I need a majority."<br> ----------</div> <br> <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 20px 0;"> <div style="font-family:Roboto, sans-serif; color:#6D00F6;"> <div>On Mon, 14 Aug 2017 at 11:22 a.m., Vickram Crishna</div> <div><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:v1clist-/[email protected]"><v1clist-/[email protected]></a> wrote:</div> </div> <div style="padding: 10px 0 0 20px; margin: 10px 0 0 0; border-left: 1px solid #6D00F6;"> Gender bias exists across the board, and is not confined to the information technology sector. <div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1502688652840"><br> </div> <div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1502688654519">However, without necessarily clinging to the IT label, most new business companies are strongly weighted towards a young management and work force, I think, and this is true in many parts of the world. It is only natural, while one should not depend on it, that it is these companies who want to break traditionalist stereotypes, especially those that conflict with the bare statement of equality. </div> <div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1502688828422"><br> </div> <div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1502688830181">Now, let's assume that, superficially, the ex-employee is as competent and sociable as anyone else. Whoever received the memo is probably going to give it some thought, even a day or two, while deciding whether to come crashing down like a ton of bricks. Then it went viral, and hard luck. </div> <div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1502688960555"><br> </div> <div id="yMail_cursorElementTracker_1502688967911">I don't think that left and right comes into it, unless right is being equated with a state of extreme ignorance about genetics and evolutionary possibilities, which is rather unlikely to be the whole truth, no matter how many trolls try hard to evangelise it.<br> <br> <div id="ymail_android_signature">Vickram<br> ________<br> Adlai Stevenson was once told, "All thinking people are with you." <br> "That's not enough," he replied, "I need a majority."<br> ----------</div> <br> <blockquote style="margin: 0 0 20px 0;"> <div style="font-family:Roboto, sans-serif; color:#6D00F6;"> <div>On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 at 10:34 p.m., Ratnendra Pandey</div> <div><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:[email protected]"><[email protected]></a> wrote:</div> </div> <div style="padding: 10px 0 0 20px; margin: 10px 0 0 0; border-left: 1px solid #6D00F6;"> _______________________________________________<br clear="none"> India-gii mailing list<br clear="none"> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]" href="mailto:India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]" moz-do-not-send="true">India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]</a><br clear="none"> <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.india-gii.org/mailman/listinfo/india-gii" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.india-gii.org/mailman/listinfo/india-gii</a><br clear="none"> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div> <br> <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset> <br> <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________ India-gii mailing list <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]">India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.india-gii.org/mailman/listinfo/india-gii">https://lists.india-gii.org/mailman/listinfo/india-gii</a> </pre> </blockquote> <br> </body> </html> --------------0D0265EDD512A7B03CF9955F-- --===============2305140345657038899== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KSW5kaWEtZ2lp IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApJbmRpYS1naWlAbGlzdHMuaW5kaWEtZ2lpLm9yZwpodHRwczovL2xpc3Rz LmluZGlhLWdpaS5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pbmRpYS1naWkK --===============2305140345657038899==--