Re: What is bias? (Re: should we continue?)
Kiritkumar Lathia <[email protected]> Wed, 16 Aug 2017 08:33:38 +0200
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.telecom.india-gii |
|---|---|
| Message-ID | <CAMkH0GwzvaEV7T+XkdTvaCPpXUEJW+cg4LsYdPW2=q7LE-sL0A@mail.gmail.com> |
--===============4128939135658738427== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1255849703520556d913cc" --94eb2c1255849703520556d913cc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dear Arun, Thank you very much for your very timely remainder of the purpose of this group. The (indirect) relevance, IMHO, is that in India we must not allow disenfranchisement of 50% of Indian (female) population through misogyny that biologically they are not suited to be in IT industry. I do apologise for the far-right political statements which are best left to Trump and co in USA. Yesterday, I had great privilege to be with our (female) Ambassador to celebrate 70th Independence Day in Belgium. IT infrastructure and better IT technology was one of the subjects we touched upon, incl. how to make engineering inclusive for females from secondary schools upwards. Was sharing experience of drive in UK for STEM (science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics) from my Institution where I am a Fellow. There is no doubt in my mind that all in this list should promote STEM and gender equality in leadership positions for better research, implementation and use of IT technologies in India. Although a day late, Jai Hind! Kirit On 16 Aug 2017 07:15, "Arun Mehta" <[email protected]> wrote: Please, people, remember the mandate of this list. Unless you can show relevance of this discussion to India's bumpy progress on the information highway, please take it offline. warmly, Arun Mehta On Mon, Aug 14, 2017 at 8:55 PM, Kiritkumar Lathia <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Mr. Pandey, > > Thank you for branding me as "left". Indeed to Alt-Right and Neo-Nazis, > all are "left" and so I am proud to be "left" - for your information I very > much follow principles of Gandhiji - by your definition a "extreme left" > since he wanted a secular state with equality for all human beings, > specially harijans and women. In a civilised society, the unfortunate are > given a helping hand (by the government) - a concept you would deem > "leftist". > > You wrote: > "Google (rather Sundar Pichai ) just went out of its way to confirm the > worst fears about the bias at Google and its adherence to the ideas of > the extremist left." > > Over the years I have noticed that anything you do not agree with becomes > "extremist left" confirming that you may be "Alt-Right", just as the "White > supremacist" in US or Hindu alt-right (extreme Hinutva proponants) in India > who blame women for being raped because they are out after dark! You Sir > seem to have similar attitude that women are somehow inferior to men and > please do not confuse this gender equality with diversity (see you emails). > This is called misogyny and you are showing it but then trying to cloak > it in "intellectual" arguments concerning "free speech"! > > By your definition, many in the the US "extremist left" judiciary has also > sided with Google in that Google has correctly dismissed the employee and > that the Constitution or Labour Laws were not infringed. > > As to the Google brand being damaged? It is one of the top 5 global brands > according to Forbes (Apple $170bn, Google $102bn, Microsoft $87bn, Facebook > $73bn, Coca-Cola $56bn, ...) and Google went up by 23% - so much for brand > damage! > > Again, freedom of speech does not mean denigrating remarks about > mothers/wives/sisters/daughters having* less biological capabilities* and > hence making them unsuitable for .... or asking to be grouped and raped ... > or ... > > Sir, that is sickening! If that means I am a "extreme leftist", then I am > proud to wear that label - we must have gender equality and to get there, > if we need need a limited time of affirmative action, so be it! > > Sincerely, > > On 13 August 2017 at 19:03, Ratnendra Pandey <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Sir, the kind of strong views that you have expressed is why >> >> I am afraid of the left and what its stands far. Exactly for >> >> this reason we have freedom of speech: to protect >> >> a speaker from those who sit in the judgement of what >> >> constitutes an acceptable speech and what does not. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > India-gii mailing list > India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected] > https://lists.india-gii.org/mailman/listinfo/india-gii > > --94eb2c1255849703520556d913cc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"auto">Dear Arun,<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">T= hank you very much for your very timely remainder of the purpose of this gr= oup.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">The (indirect) rele= vance, IMHO, is that in India we must not allow disenfranchisement of 50% o= f Indian (female) population through misogyny that biologically they are no= t suited to be in IT industry.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D= "auto">I do apologise for the far-right political statements which are best= left to Trump and co in USA.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"= auto">Yesterday, I had great privilege to be with our (female) Ambassador t= o celebrate 70th Independence Day in Belgium. IT infrastructure and better = =C2=A0IT technology was one of the subjects we touched upon, incl. how to m= ake engineering inclusive for females from secondary schools upwards. Was s= haring experience of drive in UK for STEM (science, Technology, Engineering= and Mathematics) from my Institution where I am a Fellow.</div><div dir=3D= "auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">There is no doubt in my mind that all in= this list should promote STEM and gender equality in leadership positions = for better research, implementation and use of IT technologies in India.</d= iv><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Although a day late,=C2=A0= </div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Jai Hind!</div><div dir= =3D"auto">Kirit<br></div><div dir=3D"auto"><br><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>= </div><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra" dir=3D"auto"><br><div class=3D"gmail_q= uote">On 16 Aug 2017 07:15, "Arun Mehta" <<a href=3D"mailto:ar= [email protected]">[email protected]</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribut= ion"><blockquote class=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Please, people, re= member the mandate of this list. Unless you can show relevance of this disc= ussion to India's bumpy progress on the information highway, please tak= e it offline.<br></div>warmly,<br></div>Arun Mehta<br></div><div class=3D"g= mail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"elided-text">On Mo= n, Aug 14, 2017 at 8:55 PM, Kiritkumar Lathia <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href= =3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>>= </span> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0= 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"elided= -text"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Dear Mr. Pandey,= </div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for branding me as "left". In= deed to Alt-Right and Neo-Nazis, all are "left" and so I am proud= to be "left" - for your information I very much follow principle= s of Gandhiji - by your definition a "extreme left" since he want= ed a secular state with equality for all human beings, specially harijans a= nd women. In a civilised society, the unfortunate are given a helping hand = (by the government) - a concept you would deem "leftist".<br></di= v><span><div><br></div>You wrote:<br>"<font size=3D"2"><span>Google (r= ather Sundar Pichai ) just went out of its way to</span></font><font size= =3D"2"> confirm the worst fears about the bias at Google and its</font><fon= t size=3D"2"> adherence to the ideas of the extremist=C2=A0left."<br><= br></font></span></div><font size=3D"2">Over the years I have noticed that = anything you do not agree with becomes "extremist left" confirmin= g that you may be "Alt-Right", just as the "White supremacis= t" in US or Hindu alt-right (extreme Hinutva proponants) in India who = blame women for being raped because they are out after dark! You Sir seem t= o have similar attitude that women are somehow inferior to men and please d= o not confuse this gender equality with diversity (see you emails). This is= called </font><font size=3D"2">misogyny and you are showing it but then tr= ying to cloak it in "intellectual" arguments concerning "fre= e speech"!<br></font></div><div><font size=3D"2"><br></font></div><fon= t size=3D"2">By your definition, many in the the US "extremist left&qu= ot; judiciary has also sided with Google in that Google has correctly dismi= ssed the employee and that the Constitution or Labour Laws were not infring= ed.<br><br></font></div><font size=3D"2">As to the Google brand being damag= ed? It is one of the top 5 global brands according to Forbes (Apple $170bn,= Google $102bn, Microsoft $87bn, Facebook $73bn, Coca-Cola $56bn, ...) and = Google went up by 23% - so much for brand damage!<br><br></font></div><font= size=3D"2">Again, freedom of speech does not mean denigrating remarks abou= t mothers/wives/sisters/daughter<wbr>s having<i><b> less biological capabil= ities</b></i> and hence making them unsuitable for .... or asking to be gro= uped and raped ... or ...<br><br></font></div><font size=3D"2">Sir, that is= sickening! If that means I am a "extreme leftist", then I am pro= ud to wear that label - we must have gender equality and to get there, if w= e need need a limited time of affirmative action, so be it!<br><br></font><= /div><font size=3D"2">Sincerely,<br></font><span><div><div><div><div class= =3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 13 August 2017 at 19:03,= Ratnendra Pandey <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:pandey-PkbjNfxxIASIwRZHo2/[email protected]= m" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquot= e class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px s= olid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <div id=3D"m_4582335089539965054m_3069505422322823978gmail-m_-8063448155542= 001257m_-3956590925827073617divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt;c= olor:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif" dir=3D"ltr"> <p>Sir, the kind of strong views that you have expressed is why</p> <p>I am=C2=A0=C2=A0afraid of the left and what its stands far.=C2=A0 Exactl= y for=C2=A0</p> <p>this reason we have freedom of speech: =C2=A0 to protect=C2=A0</p> <p>a speaker from those who sit in the judgement of what=C2=A0</p> <p>constitutes an acceptable=C2=A0speech and what does not. =C2=A0</p> </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div></span></div> <br></div><div class=3D"quoted-text">______________________________<wbr>___= ______________<br> India-gii mailing list<br> <a href=3D"mailto:India-gii-IAPFreCvJWP2/[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">India-gi= [email protected]</a><br> <a href=3D"https://lists.india-gii.org/mailman/listinfo/india-gii" rel=3D"n= oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://lists.india-gii.org/ma<wbr>ilman/listi= nfo/india-gii</a><br> <br></div></blockquote></div><br></div> </blockquote></div><br><br></div></div> --94eb2c1255849703520556d913cc-- --===============4128939135658738427== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KSW5kaWEtZ2lp IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApJbmRpYS1naWlAbGlzdHMuaW5kaWEtZ2lpLm9yZwpodHRwczovL2xpc3Rz LmluZGlhLWdpaS5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pbmRpYS1naWkK --===============4128939135658738427==--