Re: Is this True?
"jon.maddog.hall--- via Ale" <[email protected]> Mon, 11 May 2026 21:31:38 -0400 (EDT)
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.user-groups.ale |
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--===============0441126311186999579== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_413657_1740469915.1778549498225" ------=_Part_413657_1740469915.1778549498225 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I tend to agree with Ron. What the author of the OP is seeing is the same thing that has happened wit= h other "technologies" over time. In the beginning the people that used t= hem were few and had to know how to put them all together. As the number = of end users increased it seemed that all of those technocrats disappeared,= but all it meant was that they were hidden behind the large number of user= s who did not have to know down to the last transistor how things worked. On the other hand I have run into more and more universities that do not te= ach assembler language, any assembler language, to their students. I happ= en to think that assembler, and its accompanying computer hardware architec= ture is important even if you never write an operating system or compiler. One thing that stood out was the comment about how universities that teach = these types of topics are expensive. Cost of a university education for q= ualified students should never be a stopping point for those that want it, = or need it. If we can teach them in public schools from Kindergarten to tw= elfth grade we should be able to take them through a two-year or four-year = college. md > On 05/11/2026 4:28 PM EDT Ron via Ale <[email protected]> wrote: > =20 > =20 >=20 > lollipopman691 via Ale wrote on 2026-05-11 10:40: >=20 > > I am way more optimistic than this guy. >=20 > Me too. I started reading, didn't get far. >=20 > Too self-congratulatory, for one thing - acts as if poking at a system fo= r 20 minutes and having a working mental model of it is a vanishing skill (= that the author, of course, maintains), or that file system hierarchies hav= e relevance for normal people.=20 >=20 >=20 > Too much conspiracy addled "decades of deliberate... effort by ... tech c= ompanies ... to turn users into consumers" >=20 > Yeah, somewhat, maybe. Or decades of effort to turn consumers into users?= That sounds rather different phrased like that. >=20 > But also, 99% of drivers don't know how cars work. So what? More people h= ave computers in their pockets than drivers licenses, they use them to get = stuff done and for entertainment, not because technology needs to be unders= tood at a deep level by the masses. >=20 >=20 >=20 > I stopped reading at this nonsense: >=20 > > Ask a twenty-two-year-old to connect to a remote server via SSH. Ask > = them to explain what DNS is at a conceptual level. Ask them to tell > you t= he difference between their router=E2=80=99s public IP and the local IP > o= f their laptop. >=20 > His "Kids today know nothing" whiny rant can be flipped to "geezer out of= touch with what the youth are doing" pretty easily. >=20 > His conflation of TCP/IP networking & sysadmin tasks with relevance to av= erage people is just ridiculous. >=20 >=20 > My YouTube feed is full of kids in their ~20s doing incredible, unbelieva= ble, sometimes "humanly impossible" stuff. They use all the tools available= to pursue their interests and due to the internet have reached heights of = mastery beyond what was possible for earlier generations. >=20 > The kids are alright (as much as they ever were, lots of our cohort were = "sex & drugs & rock 'n' roll" types who went on to be home owners, etc.). >=20 > Although that home owning thing is pretty hopeless for kids today - not t= heir fault. And we're handing them a ticking time bomb with climate change = that they'll have to deal with. I don't envy them that impending disaster. >=20 > =20 >=20 > > From where I am sitting,we appear still very much alive. And the > 3D p= rinting + MakerSpace folks are continuing the fight. Right to > Repair is s= till very much in the news and being litigated both in > courts and in legi= slatures. >=20 > Indeed, I agree, it's basic human nature to want to understand how stuff = works and geezers like the author has fallen for the oldest fallacy in the = books, "kids today aren't like *we* were". >=20 > =20 >=20 > > Doesn't mean we can relax though. >=20 > Human nature won't change. Ability to self-repair miniaturized electronic= s won't get easier (but full support for Right to Repair!), but people will= find outlets for their curiosity. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Can I introduce the list to HTX Studios for a great example of "kids toda= y... that's amazing (engineering)!":http://www.youtube.com >=20 > HTX Studio >=20 > We are a DIY team from Hangzhou, China.Our goal is to create fun and enga= ging videos.We are NOT involved in any cryptocurrency trading=E2=80=94pleas= e verify accounts... >=20 > =F0=9F=94=97 https://www.youtube.com/@HTXStudio https://www.youtube.com/@= HTXStudio >=20 > Notable recommendations: >=20 > The assembly lines (plural), the one-handed keyboard, the visual musical = instrument that took 3 years, the tests of charging phones at 120W vs 5W ca= rried out over two years, the moving garbage cans that catch whatever is th= rown their way and self-empty overnight,... >=20 > They have a "NO AI" on screen when showing some of their inventions becau= se it looks like CGI or otherwise too incredible to be real. >=20 > =20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >=20 ------=_Part_413657_1740469915.1778549498225 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!doctype html> <html> <head>=20 <meta charset=3D"UTF-8">=20 </head> <body> <div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; c= olor: #333333;"> <span style=3D"font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">I tend to agree= with Ron.<br><br>What the author of the OP is seeing is the same thing tha= t has happened with other "technologies" over time. In the begi= nning the people that used them were few and had to know how to put them al= l together. As the number of end users increased it seemed that= all of those technocrats disappeared, but all it meant was that they were = hidden behind the large number of users who did not have to know down to th= e last transistor how things worked.<br><br>On the other hand I have run in= to more and more universities that do not teach assembler language, any ass= embler language, to their students. I happen to think that asse= mbler, and its accompanying computer hardware architecture is important eve= n if you never write an operating system or compiler.<br><br></span> </div>=20 <div class=3D"default-style" style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helve= tica,arial,sans-serif; color: #333333;"> <span style=3D"font-family: helvetica; font-size: 12pt;">One thing that = stood out was the comment about how universities that teach these types of = topics are expensive. Cost of a university education for qualif= ied students should never be a stopping point for those that want it, or ne= ed it. If we can teach them in public schools from Kindergarten to tw= elfth grade we should be able to take them through a two-year or four-year = college.<br><br>md</span> </div>=20 <blockquote type=3D"cite">=20 <div> On 05/11/2026 4:28 PM EDT Ron via Ale <[email protected]> wrote: </div>=20 <div> </div>=20 <div> </div>=20 <p>lollipopman691 via Ale wrote on 2026-05-11 10:40:</p> <span style=3D"= white-space: pre-wrap; display: block; width: 98vw;">> I am way more opt= imistic than this guy. </span>=20 <p>Me too. I started reading, didn't get far.</p>=20 <p>Too self-congratulatory, for one thing - acts as if poking at a syste= m for 20 minutes and having a working mental model of it is a vanishing ski= ll (that the author, of course, maintains), or that file system hierarchies= have relevance for normal people. </p>=20 <br>=20 <p>Too much conspiracy addled "decades of deliberate... effort by ... te= ch companies ... to turn users into consumers"</p>=20 <p>Yeah, somewhat, maybe. Or decades of effort to turn consumers into us= ers? That sounds rather different phrased like that.</p>=20 <p>But also, 99% of drivers don't know how cars work. So what? More peop= le have computers in their pockets than drivers licenses, they use them to = get stuff done and for entertainment, not because technology needs to be un= derstood at a deep level by the masses.</p>=20 <br> <br>I stopped reading at this nonsense: <br> <br><span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; display: block; width: 98vw;">= > Ask a twenty-two-year-old to connect to a remote server via SSH. Ask &= gt; them to explain what DNS is at a conceptual level. Ask them to tell >= ; you the difference between their router=E2=80=99s public IP and the local= IP > of their laptop. </span>=20 <p>His "Kids today know nothing" whiny rant can be flipped to "geezer ou= t of touch with what the youth are doing" pretty easily.</p>=20 <p>His conflation of TCP/IP networking & sysadmin tasks with relevan= ce to average people is just ridiculous.</p>=20 <br>=20 <p>My YouTube feed is full of kids in their ~20s doing incredible, unbel= ievable, sometimes "humanly impossible" stuff. They use all the tools avail= able to pursue their interests and due to the internet have reached heights= of mastery beyond what was possible for earlier generations.</p>=20 <p>The kids are alright (as much as they ever were, lots of our cohort w= ere "sex & drugs & rock 'n' roll" types who went on to be home owne= rs, etc.).</p>=20 <p>Although that home owning thing is pretty hopeless for kids today - n= ot their fault. And we're handing them a ticking time bomb with climate cha= nge that they'll have to deal with. I don't envy them that impending disast= er.</p>=20 <p> </p> <span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; display: block; widt= h: 98vw;">> From where I am sitting,we appear still very much alive. And= the > 3D printing + MakerSpace folks are continuing the fight. Right to= > Repair is still very much in the news and being litigated both in >= ; courts and in legislatures. </span>=20 <p><span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; display: block; width: 98vw;"><= span style=3D"white-space: normal;">Indeed, I agree, it's basic human natur= e to want to understand how stuff works and geezers like the author has fal= len for the oldest fallacy in the books, "kids today aren't like *we* were"= .</span></span></p>=20 <p> </p> <span style=3D"white-space: pre-wrap; display: block; widt= h: 98vw;">> Doesn't mean we can relax though.</span>=20 <p>Human nature won't change. Ability to self-repair miniaturized electr= onics won't get easier (but full support for Right to Repair!), but people = will find outlets for their curiosity.</p>=20 <p> </p>=20 <p>Can I introduce the list to HTX Studios for a great example of "kids = today... that's amazing (engineering)!":</p>=20 <div class=3D"card-pic" style=3D"display: flex; flex-direction: column; = flex-basis: 100%; flex: 1;">=20 <div style=3D"margin: 0 5px;"> <img style=3D"width: 600px;" src=3D"https://yt3.googleusercontent.com/= e9Tv2HS3X6lzdqoG0jAsudM0HkhpQyd24EKWjvf_MuWP_KVg68jZvVeIHYlxl7jyUtF_mlK3gg= =3Ds900-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj" alt=3D""> </div>=20 </div>=20 <div class=3D"card-content" style=3D"display: flex; flex-direction: colu= mn; flex-basis: 100%; flex: 3;">=20 <div style=3D"margin: 0 1em;">=20 <p><a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"http://www.youtube.co= m">www.youtube.com</a></p>=20 <p><a style=3D"font-weight: 600; text-decoration: none;" href=3D"#">HT= X Studio</a></p>=20 <p class=3D"description">We are a DIY team from Hangzhou, China.Our go= al is to create fun and engaging videos.We are NOT involved in any cryptocu= rrency trading=E2=80=94please verify accounts...</p>=20 <p><a class=3D"url" style=3D"display: inline-block; text-decoration: n= one; text-indent: -2ch; margin-inline: 2ch;" href=3D"https://www.youtube.co= m/@HTXStudio">=F0=9F=94=97 https://www.youtube.com/@HTXStudio</a></p>=20 </div>=20 </div>=20 <p>Notable recommendations:</p>=20 <p>The assembly lines (plural), the one-handed keyboard, the visual musi= cal instrument that took 3 years, the tests of charging phones at 120W vs 5= W carried out over two years, the moving garbage cans that catch whatever i= s thrown their way and self-empty overnight,...</p>=20 <p>They have a "NO AI" on screen when showing some of their inventions b= ecause it looks like CGI or otherwise too incredible to be real.</p>=20 <p> </p> _______________________________________________ <br>Ale mailing list <br>[email protected] <br>https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale <br>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at <br>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo </blockquote> </body> </html> ------=_Part_413657_1740469915.1778549498225-- --===============0441126311186999579== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list [email protected] https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo --===============0441126311186999579==--