Re: Is this True?
Derek Carter via Ale <[email protected]> Mon, 11 May 2026 20:05:23 -0600
| Newsgroups | gmane.org.user-groups.ale |
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| Message-ID | <[email protected]> |
--===============7270576295239186464== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=641a94d5521d745ca8cb6aaef9adde8bbeb79a83 --641a94d5521d745ca8cb6aaef9adde8bbeb79a83 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It. Just. Keeps. Going=E2=80=A6 Very =E2=80=9Ckids these days=E2=80=9D coded.=20 Thanks for the share and the discussion! =E2=80=94 Derek On Mon, May 11, 2026, at 7:31 PM, jon.maddog.hall--- via Ale wrote: > I tend to agree with Ron. >=20 > What the author of the OP is seeing is the same thing that has happene= d with other "technologies" over time. In the beginning the people tha= t used them were few and had to know how to put them all together. As = the number of end users increased it seemed that all of those technocrat= s disappeared, but all it meant was that they were hidden behind the lar= ge number of users who did not have to know down to the last transistor = how things worked. >=20 > On the other hand I have run into more and more universities that do n= ot teach assembler language, any assembler language, to their students. = I happen to think that assembler, and its accompanying computer hardwa= re architecture is important even if you never write an operating system= or compiler. > One thing that stood out was the comment about how universities that t= each these types of topics are expensive. Cost of a university educati= on for qualified students should never be a stopping point for those tha= t want it, or need it. If we can teach them in public schools from Kind= ergarten to twelfth grade we should be able to take them through a two-y= ear or four-year college. >=20 > md >> On 05/11/2026 4:28 PM EDT Ron via Ale <[email protected]> wrote: >> =20 >> =20 >> lollipopman691 via Ale wrote on 2026-05-11 10:40: >>=20 >> > I am way more optimistic than this guy. >> Me too. I started reading, didn't get far. >>=20 >> Too self-congratulatory, for one thing - acts as if poking at a syste= m for 20 minutes and having a working mental model of it is a vanishing = skill (that the author, of course, maintains), or that file system hiera= rchies have relevance for normal people.=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Too much conspiracy addled "decades of deliberate... effort by ... te= ch companies ... to turn users into consumers" >>=20 >> Yeah, somewhat, maybe. Or decades of effort to turn consumers into us= ers? That sounds rather different phrased like that. >>=20 >> But also, 99% of drivers don't know how cars work. So what? More peop= le have computers in their pockets than drivers licenses, they use them = to get stuff done and for entertainment, not because technology needs to= be understood at a deep level by the masses. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> I stopped reading at this nonsense:=20 >>=20 >> > Ask a twenty-two-year-old to connect to a remote server via SSH. As= k > them to explain what DNS is at a conceptual level. Ask them to tell = > you the difference between their router=E2=80=99s public IP and the lo= cal IP > of their laptop. >> His "Kids today know nothing" whiny rant can be flipped to "geezer ou= t of touch with what the youth are doing" pretty easily. >>=20 >> His conflation of TCP/IP networking & sysadmin tasks with relevance t= o average people is just ridiculous. >>=20 >>=20 >> My YouTube feed is full of kids in their ~20s doing incredible, unbel= ievable, sometimes "humanly impossible" stuff. They use all the tools av= ailable to pursue their interests and due to the internet have reached h= eights of mastery beyond what was possible for earlier generations. >>=20 >> The kids are alright (as much as they ever were, lots of our cohort w= ere "sex & drugs & rock 'n' roll" types who went on to be home owners, e= tc.). >>=20 >> Although that home owning thing is pretty hopeless for kids today - n= ot their fault. And we're handing them a ticking time bomb with climate = change that they'll have to deal with. I don't envy them that impending = disaster. >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> > From where I am sitting,we appear still very much alive. And the > = 3D printing + MakerSpace folks are continuing the fight. Right to > Repa= ir is still very much in the news and being litigated both in > courts a= nd in legislatures. >> Indeed, I agree, it's basic human nature to want to understand how st= uff works and geezers like the author has fallen for the oldest fallacy = in the books, "kids today aren't like *we* were". >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> > Doesn't mean we can relax though. >> Human nature won't change. Ability to self-repair miniaturized electr= onics won't get easier (but full support for Right to Repair!), but peop= le will find outlets for their curiosity. >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> Can I introduce the list to HTX Studios for a great example of "kids = today... that's amazing (engineering)!": >>=20 >>=20 >> www.youtube.com >>=20 >> HTX Studio <#> >>=20 >> We are a DIY team from Hangzhou, China.Our goal is to create fun and = engaging videos.We are NOT involved in any cryptocurrency trading=E2=80=94= please verify accounts... >>=20 >> =F0=9F=94=97 https://www.youtube.com/@HTXStudio >>=20 >> Notable recommendations: >>=20 >> The assembly lines (plural), the one-handed keyboard, the visual musi= cal instrument that took 3 years, the tests of charging phones at 120W v= s 5W carried out over two years, the moving garbage cans that catch what= ever is thrown their way and self-empty overnight,... >>=20 >> They have a "NO AI" on screen when showing some of their inventions b= ecause it looks like CGI or otherwise too incredible to be real. >>=20 >> =20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________=20 >> Ale mailing list=20 >> [email protected]=20 >> https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale=20 >> See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at=20 >> http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo > _______________________________________________ > Ale mailing list > [email protected] > https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale > See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at > http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo >=20 --641a94d5521d745ca8cb6aaef9adde8bbeb79a83 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE html><html><head><title></title></head><body><div>It. Just. Ke= eps. Going=E2=80=A6</div><div><br></div><div>Very =E2=80=9Ckids these da= ys=E2=80=9D coded. </div><div><br></div><div>Thanks for the share a= nd the discussion!</div><div><br></div><div>=E2=80=94</div><div>Derek</d= iv><div><br></div><div>On Mon, May 11, 2026, at 7:31 PM, <a href=3D= "http://jon.maddog.hall">jon.maddog.hall</a>--- via Ale wrote:</div><blo= ckquote type=3D"cite" id=3D"qt" style=3D""><div style=3D"font-size:12pt;= font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span c= lass=3D"font" style=3D"font-family:helvetica;"><span class=3D"size" styl= e=3D"font-size:12pt;">I tend to agree with Ron.<br><br>What the author o= f the OP is seeing is the same thing that has happened with other "techn= ologies" over time. In the beginning the people that used th= em were few and had to know how to put them all together. As= the number of end users increased it seemed that all of those technocra= ts disappeared, but all it meant was that they were hidden behind the la= rge number of users who did not have to know down to the last transistor= how things worked.<br><br>On the other hand I have run into more and mo= re universities that do not teach assembler language, any assembler lang= uage, to their students. I happen to think that assembler, a= nd its accompanying computer hardware architecture is important even if = you never write an operating system or compiler.<br></span></span></div>= <div class=3D"qt-default-style" style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:helv= etica, arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(51, 51, 51);"><span class=3D"font" st= yle=3D"font-family:helvetica;"><span class=3D"size" style=3D"font-size:1= 2pt;">One thing that stood out was the comment about how universities th= at teach these types of topics are expensive. Cost of a univ= ersity education for qualified students should never be a stopping point= for those that want it, or need it. If we can teach them in publi= c schools from Kindergarten to twelfth grade we should be able to take t= hem through a two-year or four-year college.<br><br>md</span></span></di= v><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On 05/11/2026 4:28 PM EDT Ron via Ale &= lt;[email protected]> wrote:</div><div> </div><div> </div><p>loll= ipopman691 via Ale wrote on 2026-05-11 10:40:</p><div><span style=3D"whi= te-space-collapse:preserve;text-wrap-mode:wrap;display:block;">> I am= way more optimistic than this guy.</span></div><p>Me too. I starte= d reading, didn't get far.</p><p>Too self-congratulatory, for one thing = - acts as if poking at a system for 20 minutes and having a working ment= al model of it is a vanishing skill (that the author, of course, maintai= ns), or that file system hierarchies have relevance for normal people.&n= bsp;</p><div><br></div><p>Too much conspiracy addled "decades of deliber= ate... effort by ... tech companies ... to turn users into consumers"</p= ><p>Yeah, somewhat, maybe. Or decades of effort to turn consumers into u= sers? That sounds rather different phrased like that.</p><p>But al= so, 99% of drivers don't know how cars work. So what? More people have c= omputers in their pockets than drivers licenses, they use them to get st= uff done and for entertainment, not because technology needs to be under= stood at a deep level by the masses.</p><div><br></div><div><br></div><d= iv>I stopped reading at this nonsense: </div><div> <br></div><div><span = style=3D"white-space-collapse:preserve;text-wrap-mode:wrap;display:block= ;">> Ask a twenty-two-year-old to connect to a remote server via SSH.= Ask > them to explain what DNS is at a conceptual level. Ask them to= tell > you the difference between their router=E2=80=99s public IP a= nd the local IP > of their laptop.</span></div><p>His "Kids today kno= w nothing" whiny rant can be flipped to "geezer out of touch with what t= he youth are doing" pretty easily.</p><p>His conflation of TCP/IP networ= king & sysadmin tasks with relevance to average people is just ridic= ulous.</p><div><br></div><p>My YouTube feed is full of kids in their ~20= s doing incredible, unbelievable, sometimes "humanly impossible" stuff. = They use all the tools available to pursue their interests and due to th= e internet have reached heights of mastery beyond what was possible for = earlier generations.</p><p>The kids are alright (as much as they ever we= re, lots of our cohort were "sex & drugs & rock 'n' roll" types = who went on to be home owners, etc.).</p><p>Although that home owning th= ing is pretty hopeless for kids today - not their fault. And we're handi= ng them a ticking time bomb with climate change that they'll have to dea= l with. I don't envy them that impending disaster.</p><p> </p><div>= <span style=3D"white-space-collapse:preserve;text-wrap-mode:wrap;display= :block;">> From where I am sitting,we appear still very much alive. A= nd the > 3D printing + MakerSpace folks are continuing the fight. Rig= ht to > Repair is still very much in the news and being litigated bot= h in > courts and in legislatures.</span></div><p><span style=3D"whit= e-space-collapse:preserve;text-wrap-mode:wrap;display:block;"><span styl= e=3D"white-space-collapse:collapse;text-wrap-mode:wrap;">Indeed, I agree= , it's basic human nature to want to understand how stuff works and geez= ers like the author has fallen for the oldest fallacy in the books, "kid= s today aren't like *we* were".</span></span></p><p> </p><div><span= style=3D"white-space-collapse:preserve;text-wrap-mode:wrap;display:bloc= k;">> Doesn't mean we can relax though.</span></div><p>Human nature w= on't change. Ability to self-repair miniaturized electronics won't get e= asier (but full support for Right to Repair!), but people will find outl= ets for their curiosity.</p><p> </p><p>Can I introduce the list to = HTX Studios for a great example of "kids today... that's amazing (engine= ering)!":</p><div class=3D"qt-card-pic" style=3D"display:flex;flex-direc= tion:column;flex-grow:1;flex-shrink:1;flex-basis:0%;"><div style=3D"marg= in-top:0px;margin-right:5px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:5px;"><img sty= le=3D"width:600px;" src=3D"https://yt3.googleusercontent.com/e9Tv2HS3X6l= zdqoG0jAsudM0HkhpQyd24EKWjvf_MuWP_KVg68jZvVeIHYlxl7jyUtF_mlK3gg=3Ds900-c= -k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj" alt=3D""><br></div></div><div class=3D"qt-card-con= tent" style=3D"display:flex;flex-direction:column;flex-grow:3;flex-shrin= k:1;flex-basis:0%;"><div style=3D"margin-top:0px;margin-right:1em;margin= -bottom:0px;margin-left:1em;"><p><a class=3D"qt-moz-txt-link-abbreviated= " href=3D"http://www.youtube.com">www.youtube.com</a></p><p><a style=3D"= font-weight:600;text-decoration-line:none;text-decoration-thickness:auto= ;text-decoration-style:solid;text-decoration-color:currentcolor;" href=3D= "#">HTX Studio</a></p><p class=3D"qt-description">We are a DIY team from= Hangzhou, China.Our goal is to create fun and engaging videos.We are NO= T involved in any cryptocurrency trading=E2=80=94please verify accounts.= ..</p><p><a class=3D"qt-url" style=3D"display:inline-block;text-decorati= on-line:none;text-decoration-thickness:auto;text-decoration-style:solid;= text-decoration-color:currentcolor;text-indent:-2ch;margin-inline-start:= 2ch;margin-inline-end:2ch;" href=3D"https://www.youtube.com/@HTXStudio">= =F0=9F=94=97 https://www.youtube.com/@HTXStudio</a></p></div></div><p>No= table recommendations:</p><p>The assembly lines (plural), the one-handed= keyboard, the visual musical instrument that took 3 years, the tests of= charging phones at 120W vs 5W carried out over two years, the moving ga= rbage cans that catch whatever is thrown their way and self-empty overni= ght,...</p><p>They have a "NO AI" on screen when showing some of their i= nventions because it looks like CGI or otherwise too incredible to be re= al.</p><p> </p><div>_______________________________________________= </div><div>Ale mailing list </div><div>[email protected] </div><div>https://m= ail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale </div><div>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOO= LS lists at </div><div>http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</div></block= quote><div>_______________________________________________</div><div>Ale= mailing list</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a></= div><div><a href=3D"https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale">https://m= ail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale</a></div><div>See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SC= HOOLS lists at</div><div><a href=3D"http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo= ">http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo</a></div><div><br></div></blockqu= ote><div><br></div></body></html> --641a94d5521d745ca8cb6aaef9adde8bbeb79a83-- --===============7270576295239186464== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Ale mailing list [email protected] https://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo/ale See JOBS, ANNOUNCE and SCHOOLS lists at http://mail.ale.org/mailman/listinfo --===============7270576295239186464==--