RE: Non - Linux - But good article

This may well be an issue in culture then.

Australians are not ones for political correctness.  I see political
correctness as a blight on frank and honest debate.

Call a spade a spade.  Be real, lighten up, etc.

I did not suggest that all Germans are Nazi's, I did not call anyone a
Nazi.  I accept that, that was poor judgement on my behalf.  Not the use
of the world - which has now passed into the vernacular, but the timing
and place.  Amongst new friends that would not be able to read my
intentions and motivations correctly.

However I said it and I do not personally believe it to be insulting or
incorrect to use, the intent was clearly not to insult.  People need to
lighten up a bit.  To get stuck on that issue is a stupid as living
generations today that hold ill will towards the actions of other
generations gone past.

I honestly believe that some people are not often offended - but feel
that they should be.  That is silly.  And that is part of the problem
here.  You were looking to being offended as opposed to looking for the
truth of my comments.  You prejudiced your own thought processes.

I feel there is a difference between what you are talking about (just
being aware if people's sensibilities) that I agree with you on.  And
then the just downright silly.  Where you draw the line does depend on
the time/place/context of where you are.

As I have learnt now, I will have to adjust that line due to the
bleeding heart sensibilities of yourself.

My issue is with the prejudicial approach with which I was treated
with.  If you want to experience true cultural tolerance and
multiculturalism and freedom of religion, I suggest you go and spend
some time in Australia.  We are far more qualified than ANY other
country or race on the planet to talk to that issue.

Regards,
RF.





On Wed, 2004-03-31 at 12:00, Frederic Muller wrote:
> Richard,
> 
> The point was not the article but the comments in your email. There are
> always two ways to present things and it seems that you like to use a
> sarcastic style which may offend people. So my request was about using a
> more "politically correct" style if you prefer, not about censorship of the
> article.
> Since this is not the first time I noticed it, I took the liberty to
> politely ask you for a change in the matter.
> Should I remind you that at the last meeting after using the term "nazi" you
> clumsily apologized to the Germans in the rooms for using that term. Do I
> also need to tell you that all Germans are not nazis and you should be a bit
> more cautious about the terms you use and how you use them? And of course I
> know you know it (about Germans, nazis and how to use terms...). My polite
> request is just to be a bit more sensitive to the diversity in cultural
> backgrounds and sensitivity of people belonging to this group or just
> reading emails from the list.
> Do you need more example?
> 
> I am just saying that I am offended and some other people might be. I am
> just saying there are other ways to convey the same message, which will be
> nicer in general, for a publically available discussion and as a message
> which is spread on behalf of the BLUG.
> I am a bit sad that I need to spell it out for you to realize (if you
> admittedly realize it!).
> 
> Now I am done with this issue.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Fred
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Richard Ford
> Sent: Wednesday 31 March, 2004 11:35
> To: Beijing LUG general non-technical discussion list - Not publicly posted
> Subject: RE: [blug-general] Non - Linux - But good article
> 
> 
> I still do not see how anything I wrote before was "political"?  I posted
> the link FIRST before my text for obvious reasons of "context".
> 
> I am often horrified by how some people are quick to say something is a slur
> or racist or political.  Yet as a 3rd generation Irishman, why should I not
> get offended at those "Irishman, Englishman, American" jokes that lay claim
> to the apparent stupidity of my forefathers?
> 
> Is that not racist also?  Of course - but that is politically 'acceptable'.
> 
> 
> If I go and make a comment about the quality of construction in Beijing, I
> am labelled a culturally insensitive gate crasher?
> 
> Go figure?
> 
> The fact of the matter is this:
> 
> A perfectly good article was presented and Fred went of half-cocked,
> half-informed and half-enlightened and got his knickers in a knot.
> 
> Let's not obfuscate the issue.  I was unilaterally tared and feathered for
> injecting some "food for thought".  Dare I mention anything about the dust
> storm yesterday, I could get labelled as some kind of unwanted
> environmentalist practitioner.
> 
> 
> RF.
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2004-03-31 at 11:08, Graham Brown wrote:
> > Hi Amy,
> > 
> > Clearly,my comments were not addressing the article itself.
> > 
> > Your views are welcome, but Fred is also probably right that the real 
> > issue
> > is whether the list is a space for the expression of political views that 
> > are not technically related to Linux or OS issues.
> > 
> > There are plenty of Linux related political issues for those 
> > interested in
> > advocacy:
> > 
> > Despite all the open source "advocacy" of the Chinese government, many 
> > government websites are only MS compliant, not standards compliant.   This
> 
> > creates problems in accessing information from OS browsers such as 
> > Mozilla.
> > 
> > Writing tax receipts (fapiao) requires (unless there are alternatives 
> > that
> > I am not aware of) the use of software that only runs on MS windows.
> There 
> > are other "official" issues that similarly require that you have MSW
> installed.
> > 
> > There are also China specific graphic file formats that are, so far as 
> > I
> > know, only supported in MSW.
> > 
> > If China adopts its own wifi and other standards, who is going to 
> > write the
> > linux drivers?  Will information be made available to enable drivers to be
> 
> > written?
> > 
> > etc etc.
> > 
> > At 10:26 AM 31/03/2004 +0800, you wrote:
> > >the point was not about the article but the comments in the email... 
> > >I guess I was not clear enough. Besides this is a Linux group and not 
> > >a Freedom of speech group. I remember not so long ago the issue being 
> > >raised about sticking to Linux/Open source subject.... so why not 
> > >anymore?
> > >
> > >Fred
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
> > >[mailto:blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Su 
> > >Jiang
> > >Sent: Wednesday 31 March, 2004 10:16
> > >To: 'Beijing LUG general non-technical discussion list - Not
> > >publiclyposted'; [email protected]
> > >Subject: RE: [blug-general] Non - Linux - But good article
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi, as a Chinese I would like to make a few comments too.
> > >
> > >I like the article that Richard recommended.  I am really into my job 
> > >and can't follow up with the discussion in this mailing list all the 
> > >time. Often I skipped the articles that Bluggers recommended in their 
> > >email but I happened to read this article and found it is very 
> > >informative, interesting and intelligent.  Personally I would like to 
> > >thank Richard to have taken efforts and time to pick this great 
> > >article and shared with us, isn't sharing the true spirit of Linux?
> > >
> > >I tend to think Fred has been a bit emotional on this issue.  
> > >Whatever we felt about the wordings or opinions of the article does 
> > >not change the fact at all, right?  The truth is out there, hiding 
> > >from the truth does not change it, neither denial.  The article may 
> > >not telling the ultimate truth, but it is informative enough to 
> > >expend the horizon of our knowledge about skyscrapers, isn't this a 
> > >nice thing?  Why we geeks have to sit in the well of technology and 
> > >stay away from other interesting knowledge?  The spirit of technology 
> > >is not about learning and building but to explore with passion - it 
> > >is a fun tour!
> > >
> > >I understand Fred's concern about saving bluggers' time by keeping 
> > >this mailing list specialized in technology issues only.  I have to 
> > >say that this sound a bit too up-tight for me. I am an up-tight 
> > >person at my job too, but I don't take this mailing list as serious 
> > >as my job, and I don't think we need to.  I think this is a mailing 
> > >list of freedom. Richard has the freedom of posing articles for 
> > >people's interest, people who are not interested has the freedom of 
> > >not reading it, and Fred has the freedom to claim that he was 
> > >offended.  I don't agree to make any rules on this mailing list for 
> > >that will break the spirit of freedom, which is also the spirit of 
> > >Linux.
> > >
> > >Another thing I can't agree, is the way of your debate.  Where is 
> > >this leading?  The article is informative and useful but your debate 
> > >is not. Sorry to say so but this is my freedom to express my feeling.  
> > >: )
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >Amy
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > blug-general list
> > [email protected] 
> > http://list.beijinglug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blug-general
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blug-general list
> [email protected]
> http://list.beijinglug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blug-general
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blug-general list
> [email protected]
> http://list.beijinglug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blug-general

_______________________________________________
blug-general list
[email protected]
http://list.beijinglug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blug-general