RE: Non - Linux - But good article

I would bet a AUD$100 you have watched, laughed and enjoyed "Hogan's
Hero's"?

Yet do you fire off a public email to the producers claiming political
incorrectness and insulation?

Do not tell me that you have =never= laughed at an Irishman, Englishman,
American joke.

Get Real Fred.






On Wed, 2004-03-31 at 12:00, Frederic Muller wrote:
> Richard,
> 
> The point was not the article but the comments in your email. There are
> always two ways to present things and it seems that you like to use a
> sarcastic style which may offend people. So my request was about using a
> more "politically correct" style if you prefer, not about censorship of the
> article.
> Since this is not the first time I noticed it, I took the liberty to
> politely ask you for a change in the matter.
> Should I remind you that at the last meeting after using the term "nazi" you
> clumsily apologized to the Germans in the rooms for using that term. Do I
> also need to tell you that all Germans are not nazis and you should be a bit
> more cautious about the terms you use and how you use them? And of course I
> know you know it (about Germans, nazis and how to use terms...). My polite
> request is just to be a bit more sensitive to the diversity in cultural
> backgrounds and sensitivity of people belonging to this group or just
> reading emails from the list.
> Do you need more example?
> 
> I am just saying that I am offended and some other people might be. I am
> just saying there are other ways to convey the same message, which will be
> nicer in general, for a publically available discussion and as a message
> which is spread on behalf of the BLUG.
> I am a bit sad that I need to spell it out for you to realize (if you
> admittedly realize it!).
> 
> Now I am done with this issue.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Fred
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
> [mailto:blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Richard Ford
> Sent: Wednesday 31 March, 2004 11:35
> To: Beijing LUG general non-technical discussion list - Not publicly posted
> Subject: RE: [blug-general] Non - Linux - But good article
> 
> 
> I still do not see how anything I wrote before was "political"?  I posted
> the link FIRST before my text for obvious reasons of "context".
> 
> I am often horrified by how some people are quick to say something is a slur
> or racist or political.  Yet as a 3rd generation Irishman, why should I not
> get offended at those "Irishman, Englishman, American" jokes that lay claim
> to the apparent stupidity of my forefathers?
> 
> Is that not racist also?  Of course - but that is politically 'acceptable'.
> 
> 
> If I go and make a comment about the quality of construction in Beijing, I
> am labelled a culturally insensitive gate crasher?
> 
> Go figure?
> 
> The fact of the matter is this:
> 
> A perfectly good article was presented and Fred went of half-cocked,
> half-informed and half-enlightened and got his knickers in a knot.
> 
> Let's not obfuscate the issue.  I was unilaterally tared and feathered for
> injecting some "food for thought".  Dare I mention anything about the dust
> storm yesterday, I could get labelled as some kind of unwanted
> environmentalist practitioner.
> 
> 
> RF.
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2004-03-31 at 11:08, Graham Brown wrote:
> > Hi Amy,
> > 
> > Clearly,my comments were not addressing the article itself.
> > 
> > Your views are welcome, but Fred is also probably right that the real 
> > issue
> > is whether the list is a space for the expression of political views that 
> > are not technically related to Linux or OS issues.
> > 
> > There are plenty of Linux related political issues for those 
> > interested in
> > advocacy:
> > 
> > Despite all the open source "advocacy" of the Chinese government, many 
> > government websites are only MS compliant, not standards compliant.   This
> 
> > creates problems in accessing information from OS browsers such as 
> > Mozilla.
> > 
> > Writing tax receipts (fapiao) requires (unless there are alternatives 
> > that
> > I am not aware of) the use of software that only runs on MS windows.
> There 
> > are other "official" issues that similarly require that you have MSW
> installed.
> > 
> > There are also China specific graphic file formats that are, so far as 
> > I
> > know, only supported in MSW.
> > 
> > If China adopts its own wifi and other standards, who is going to 
> > write the
> > linux drivers?  Will information be made available to enable drivers to be
> 
> > written?
> > 
> > etc etc.
> > 
> > At 10:26 AM 31/03/2004 +0800, you wrote:
> > >the point was not about the article but the comments in the email... 
> > >I guess I was not clear enough. Besides this is a Linux group and not 
> > >a Freedom of speech group. I remember not so long ago the issue being 
> > >raised about sticking to Linux/Open source subject.... so why not 
> > >anymore?
> > >
> > >Fred
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
> > >[mailto:blug-general-bounces-+qp3TudyjKPvfBIPTTProkB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Su 
> > >Jiang
> > >Sent: Wednesday 31 March, 2004 10:16
> > >To: 'Beijing LUG general non-technical discussion list - Not
> > >publiclyposted'; [email protected]
> > >Subject: RE: [blug-general] Non - Linux - But good article
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi, as a Chinese I would like to make a few comments too.
> > >
> > >I like the article that Richard recommended.  I am really into my job 
> > >and can't follow up with the discussion in this mailing list all the 
> > >time. Often I skipped the articles that Bluggers recommended in their 
> > >email but I happened to read this article and found it is very 
> > >informative, interesting and intelligent.  Personally I would like to 
> > >thank Richard to have taken efforts and time to pick this great 
> > >article and shared with us, isn't sharing the true spirit of Linux?
> > >
> > >I tend to think Fred has been a bit emotional on this issue.  
> > >Whatever we felt about the wordings or opinions of the article does 
> > >not change the fact at all, right?  The truth is out there, hiding 
> > >from the truth does not change it, neither denial.  The article may 
> > >not telling the ultimate truth, but it is informative enough to 
> > >expend the horizon of our knowledge about skyscrapers, isn't this a 
> > >nice thing?  Why we geeks have to sit in the well of technology and 
> > >stay away from other interesting knowledge?  The spirit of technology 
> > >is not about learning and building but to explore with passion - it 
> > >is a fun tour!
> > >
> > >I understand Fred's concern about saving bluggers' time by keeping 
> > >this mailing list specialized in technology issues only.  I have to 
> > >say that this sound a bit too up-tight for me. I am an up-tight 
> > >person at my job too, but I don't take this mailing list as serious 
> > >as my job, and I don't think we need to.  I think this is a mailing 
> > >list of freedom. Richard has the freedom of posing articles for 
> > >people's interest, people who are not interested has the freedom of 
> > >not reading it, and Fred has the freedom to claim that he was 
> > >offended.  I don't agree to make any rules on this mailing list for 
> > >that will break the spirit of freedom, which is also the spirit of 
> > >Linux.
> > >
> > >Another thing I can't agree, is the way of your debate.  Where is 
> > >this leading?  The article is informative and useful but your debate 
> > >is not. Sorry to say so but this is my freedom to express my feeling.  
> > >: )
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >
> > >Amy
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > blug-general list
> > [email protected] 
> > http://list.beijinglug.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blug-general
> 
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