Re: [DLC] Richard Stallman, presenting at UofC, Monday April 2nd

Hal Wigoda <[email protected]> Tue, 13 Mar 2012 20:10:25 -0500
Newsgroups gmane.org.user-groups.linux.depaul-lug
Message-ID <[email protected]>
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This is a discussion not an argument     =F0=9F=98=83=F0=9F=86=97

-------

On Mar 13, 2012, at 7:37 PM, Matthew Gottlieb <[email protected]>=
 wrote:

> You do realize that you were fighting with Hal (the biggest Hippie to pass=
 through DePaul in recent years) who is defending Richard Stallman, (the big=
gest Hippie on the internet). ...right?
>=20
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Sean Neilan <[email protected]> wrote:
> Why is Richard Stallman not listed on the UiC International House (the loc=
ation's) website?
> http://ihouse.uchicago.edu/
>=20
>=20
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Larry Garfield <[email protected]> w=
rote:
> Matt originally suggested it back when I was president a decade ago.  I
> vetoed it on the grounds that "I refuse to be president of DUFOS!"
> (Really, that line is in the old mail archives from a decade ago, if
> anyone has them.)
>=20
> We were originally DLUG, then DGLUG, then DLC.  The DGLUG name wasn't
> strictly "because RMS wanted it", but because we were trying to be more
> Free Software-supportive than Open-Sourcy.  We eventually changed to DLC
> because no one could pronounce a word with a slash in it.
>=20
> No reasonable person claims that RMS is the father of Linux, and neither
> does RMS.  One could argue that he's the father of GNU/Linux, and RMS
> himself will give you a 20 minute lecture if you dare to refer to the
> entire system as anything other than GNU/Linux.  He was the founder of
> FSF, which has been a major positive force in the "software and
> intellectual freedom" movement (Free Software, Open Source, copyright
> freedom, open formats, etc.).
>=20
> RMS himself is still nonetheless a rather unpleasant human being.  I
> speak from personal experience (I had dinner with him back when I was at
> DePaul as a student) as well as near universal agreement among others
> I've talked to that have spent time with him.
>=20
> I would still encourage people to see him speak themselves, if only for
> the experience.  He may not be a nice person, but he is still right on
> far more issues than most would like to admit.  If you haven't read "The
> Right to Read" then you do not understand just how far gone our society
> is, in ways that RMS predicted 15 years ago:
>=20
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
>=20
> (Incidentally, that "one Chicago-area university" mentioned at the
> bottom?  Yes, that's DePaul.)
>=20
> Thanks for making me feel old, guys!  Now get off my lawn...
>=20
> --Larry Garfield
>=20
> On 3/13/12 12:37 PM, Matthew P Kemp wrote:
> > Been trying since 1999/98 ... haven't succeed yet.  All of you =3D=3D no=
 fun!
> >
> > --
> > Matthew P Kemp
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:21 PM,<[email protected]>  wrote:
> >> I like the name you suggest "DePaul Users of Free Operating Systems" I j=
ust
> >> dont think I would be too crazy about the acronym: DUFOS (?)
> >>
> >> but that's just me....
> >>
> >> /*Joel Alonso*/
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: "Matthew P Kemp"<[email protected]>
> >> To: "DePaul Linux Community - Discuss"<[email protected]>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:48:12 AM
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [DLC] Richard Stallman, presenting at UofC, Monday April 2=
nd
> >>
> >> Actually DLUG became DGLUG for a bit.  I am still voting for DePaul
> >> Users of Free Operating Systems, but I keep losing that battle.  BSD
> >> be damned!
> >>
> >> --
> >> Matthew P Kemp
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 8:16 AM, John Kristoff<[email protected]>  wrote:
> >>> Someone said that Stallman is the father of Linux.  I doubt Richard
> >>> would even claim that, especially since he would insist you call the
> >>> entire operating system GNU/Linux.  Nevertheless, the FSF has this to
> >>> say:
> >>>
> >>>   If we tried to measure the GNU Project's contribution in this way,
> >>>   what would we conclude? One CD-ROM vendor found that in their "Linux=

> >>>   distribution", GNU software was the largest single contingent, aroun=
d
> >>>   28% of the total source code, and this included some of the essentia=
l
> >>>   major components without which there could be no system. Linux itsel=
f
> >>>   was about 3%. (The proportions in 2008 are similar: in the "main"
> >>>   repository of gNewSense, Linux is 1.5% and GNU packages are 15%.) So=
 if
> >>>   you were going to pick a name for the system based on who wrote the
> >>>   programs in the system, the most appropriate single choice would be
> >>>   =E2=80=9CGNU=E2=80=9D.
> >>>
> >>>   <http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html>
> >>>
> >>> Whatever you call it, it's an aggregate of many licenses, people and
> >>> borrowed ideas from other projects.
> >>>
> >>> As a historical note, I recall this group once seriously considering
> >>> changing it's name from the original DLUG to DGLUG or something simila=
r
> >>> to acquiesce to the FSF when it was made clear by Bradley Kuhn when he=

> >>> visited DePaul that RMS himself wouldn't come to DePaul unless this
> >>> group changed it's name to put 'GNU' or something about free software i=
n
> >>> it's name.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> DLC mailing list
> >>> [email protected]
> >>> http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc
> >>> Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!
> >>> http://linux.depaul.edu/
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> DLC mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc
> >> Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!
> >> http://linux.depaul.edu/
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> DLC mailing list
> >> [email protected]
> >> http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc
> >> Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!
> >> http://linux.depaul.edu/
> > _______________________________________________
> > DLC mailing list
> > [email protected]
> > http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc
> > Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!
> > http://linux.depaul.edu/
> _______________________________________________
> DLC mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc
> Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!
> http://linux.depaul.edu/
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> DLC mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc
> Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!
> http://linux.depaul.edu/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> DLC mailing list
> [email protected]
> http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc
> Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!
> http://linux.depaul.edu/

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<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>This is a discussion not a=
n argument &nbsp; &nbsp; =F0=9F=98=83=F0=9F=86=97<br><br>-------</div><div><=
br>On Mar 13, 2012, at 7:37 PM, Matthew Gottlieb &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:matth=
[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br>=
</div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>You do realize that you were=
 fighting with Hal (the biggest Hippie to pass through DePaul in recent year=
s) who is defending Richard Stallman, (the biggest Hippie on the internet). .=
..right?<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Sean Neilan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

Why is Richard Stallman not listed on the UiC International House (the locat=
ion's) website?<div><a href=3D"http://ihouse.uchicago.edu/" target=3D"_blank=
">http://ihouse.uchicago.edu/</a><div><div class=3D"h5"><br><br><div class=3D=
"gmail_quote">

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:02 PM, Larry Garfield <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
 #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Matt originally suggested it back when I was p=
resident a decade ago. &nbsp;I<br>
vetoed it on the grounds that "I refuse to be president of DUFOS!"<br>
(Really, that line is in the old mail archives from a decade ago, if<br>
anyone has them.)<br>
<br>
We were originally DLUG, then DGLUG, then DLC. &nbsp;The DGLUG name wasn't<b=
r>
strictly "because RMS wanted it", but because we were trying to be more<br>
Free Software-supportive than Open-Sourcy. &nbsp;We eventually changed to DL=
C<br>
because no one could pronounce a word with a slash in it.<br>
<br>
No reasonable person claims that RMS is the father of Linux, and neither<br>=

does RMS. &nbsp;One could argue that he's the father of GNU/Linux, and RMS<b=
r>
himself will give you a 20 minute lecture if you dare to refer to the<br>
entire system as anything other than GNU/Linux. &nbsp;He was the founder of<=
br>
FSF, which has been a major positive force in the "software and<br>
intellectual freedom" movement (Free Software, Open Source, copyright<br>
freedom, open formats, etc.).<br>
<br>
RMS himself is still nonetheless a rather unpleasant human being. &nbsp;I<br=
>
speak from personal experience (I had dinner with him back when I was at<br>=

DePaul as a student) as well as near universal agreement among others<br>
I've talked to that have spent time with him.<br>
<br>
I would still encourage people to see him speak themselves, if only for<br>
the experience. &nbsp;He may not be a nice person, but he is still right on<=
br>
far more issues than most would like to admit. &nbsp;If you haven't read "Th=
e<br>
Right to Read" then you do not understand just how far gone our society<br>
is, in ways that RMS predicted 15 years ago:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html</a><br>
<br>
(Incidentally, that "one Chicago-area university" mentioned at the<br>
bottom? &nbsp;Yes, that's DePaul.)<br>
<br>
Thanks for making me feel old, guys! &nbsp;Now get off my lawn...<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
--Larry Garfield<br>
</font><div><div></div><div><br>
On 3/13/12 12:37 PM, Matthew P Kemp wrote:<br>
&gt; Been trying since 1999/98 ... haven't succeed yet. &nbsp;All of you =3D=
=3D no fun!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; --<br>
&gt; Matthew P Kemp<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:21 PM,&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:aztec007@comcast=
.net" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; &nbsp;wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; I like the name you suggest "DePaul Users of Free Operating Systems=
" I just<br>
&gt;&gt; dont think I would be too crazy about the acronym: DUFOS (?)<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; but that's just me....<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; /*Joel Alonso*/<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; ________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; From: "Matthew P Kemp"&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]=
m" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; To: "DePaul Linux Community - Discuss"&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:dlc@mai=
lman.depaul.edu" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 8:48:12 AM<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: [DLC] Richard Stallman, presenting at UofC, Monday Apr=
il 2nd<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Actually DLUG became DGLUG for a bit. &nbsp;I am still voting for D=
ePaul<br>
&gt;&gt; Users of Free Operating Systems, but I keep losing that battle. &nb=
sp;BSD<br>
&gt;&gt; be damned!<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; --<br>
&gt;&gt; Matthew P Kemp<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 8:16 AM, John Kristoff&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]</a>&gt; &nbsp;wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Someone said that Stallman is the father of Linux. &nbsp;I doub=
t Richard<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; would even claim that, especially since he would insist you cal=
l the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; entire operating system GNU/Linux. &nbsp;Nevertheless, the FSF h=
as this to<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; say:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; If we tried to measure the GNU Project's contribution in=
 this way,<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; what would we conclude? One CD-ROM vendor found that in t=
heir "Linux<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; distribution", GNU software was the largest single conti=
ngent, around<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; 28% of the total source code, and this included some of t=
he essential<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; major components without which there could be no system.=
 Linux itself<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; was about 3%. (The proportions in 2008 are similar: in t=
he "main"<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; repository of gNewSense, Linux is 1.5% and GNU packages a=
re 15%.) So if<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; you were going to pick a name for the system based on wh=
o wrote the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; programs in the system, the most appropriate single choi=
ce would be<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; =E2=80=9CGNU=E2=80=9D.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; &nbsp; &lt;<a href=3D"http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html=
" target=3D"_blank">http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Whatever you call it, it's an aggregate of many licenses, peopl=
e and<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; borrowed ideas from other projects.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; As a historical note, I recall this group once seriously consid=
ering<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; changing it's name from the original DLUG to DGLUG or something=
 similar<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; to acquiesce to the FSF when it was made clear by Bradley Kuhn w=
hen he<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; visited DePaul that RMS himself wouldn't come to DePaul unless t=
his<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; group changed it's name to put 'GNU' or something about free so=
ftware in<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; it's name.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; John<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; DLC mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">DLC=
@mailman.depaul.edu</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc" targ=
et=3D"_blank">http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc</a><br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://linux.depaul.edu/" target=3D"_blank">http://l=
inux.depaul.edu/</a><br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; DLC mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">DLC@mai=
lman.depaul.edu</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc" target=3D=
"_blank">http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://linux.depaul.edu/" target=3D"_blank">http://linux=
.depaul.edu/</a><br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt;&gt; DLC mailing list<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">DLC@mai=
lman.depaul.edu</a><br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc" target=3D=
"_blank">http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc</a><br>
&gt;&gt; Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!<br>
&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"http://linux.depaul.edu/" target=3D"_blank">http://linux=
.depaul.edu/</a><br>
&gt; _______________________________________________<br>
&gt; DLC mailing list<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">DLC@mailman=
.depaul.edu</a><br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc" target=3D"_b=
lank">http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc</a><br>
&gt; Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"http://linux.depaul.edu/" target=3D"_blank">http://linux.dep=
aul.edu/</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
DLC mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]" target=3D"_blank">[email protected]=
ul.edu</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc</a><br>
Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!<br>
<a href=3D"http://linux.depaul.edu/" target=3D"_blank">http://linux.depaul.e=
du/</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
DLC mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc" target=3D"_blank"=
>http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc</a><br>
Use the Above Link to Unsubcribe!!<br>
<a href=3D"http://linux.depaul.edu/" target=3D"_blank">http://linux.depaul.e=
du/</a><br></blockquote></div><br>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
___________________________</span><br><span>DLC mailing list</span><br><span=
><a href=3D"mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</a></span>=
<br><span><a href=3D"http://mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc">http://=
mailman.depaul.edu/mailman/listinfo/dlc</a></span><br><span>Use the Above Li=
nk to Unsubcribe!!</span><br><span><a href=3D"http://linux.depaul.edu/">http=
://linux.depaul.edu/</a></span></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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