Re: Sharing docum... OT Google sux

On 22/05/15 15:07, Robin Sheat wrote:
> worik schreef op vr 22-05-2015 om 14:48 [+1200]:
>> As a random
>> example the first link, as I write from Hacker News, is on
>> http://karpathy.github.io/.  The particular page wants to load JS from
>> cdn.mathjax.org.  It is touching that the folks at karpathy.github.io
>> trust those at cdn.mathjax.org.  
> The point of these is that if many people use it then there is a big
> blob of javascript that you don't have to download as it is cached,
> thereby making things faster and being nicer to your internet
> connection.
>
>> But why should I?  Why should I let my
>> data be sent to cdn.mathjax.org? In the general case it is without the
>> users knowledge and in all cases at the users expense.  
> That's not correct, in almost every case it is to the user's benefit as
> it requires less bandwidth on average and means you spend less time
> waiting.

No.  I am already downloading data from the host.  Tacking some
javascript into that download has a very small marginal cost.  Opening a
connection to another site does not.  Putting the Java Script in the
HTML will be the fastest solution, surely. 
>
>> This is, IMO, a
>> bug in the specifications.  It should not be allowed.  I have nothing
>> good to say about cookies.  Nothing at all.  Stop using them. 
> They are useful to keep you logged in to a site, for one. Saving your
> language or other preferences without having an account is another
> useful things that cookies allow.

There are other solutions.  What cookies do (in a non evil sense, there
are many evil uses) is mean I can make a new connection and the server
will remember me and have those credentials.  If I stay in a session
then all those functions can be achieved in other ways.

> The problem is you're commenting on things that have totally
> legitimately valid and reasonable uses, but in some cases are misused,
> and using that as a reason to write off the whole technology. That's
> virtually the same as what the government does with things that allow
> bypassing of digital restrictions management tools (like for ripping
> your DVDs), because some people can use it in a "wrong" way, it must be
> banned for all! We decry it when they do it, and we should decry it when
> it's done from within our own community too, I think.
Yes, I am.  You make a good point.  (Supply your own Java Script in line
still, but about cookies your point is good).  Cookies do have uses (do
third party cookies have any legitimate use?).  I spoke with too much
rage.  I do think the non-evil use cases for cookies are too narrow to
mean that I will accept them with good grace any time soon.  But that is
a judgement call.

The face that there is a good use for some thing does not mean we should
accept it.  It is a trade off, mostly, between the good and bad.  Take
guns: There are good reasons to own guns.  I do not own any guns because
the most likely use case for a gun at my place is too horrid to think
about. I do not want to ban guns.  (I would ban pistols.  They have no
acceptable use case as far as I am concerned.  I really want to know if
you are carrying a gun!)

I would not change the specification of HTTP to stop first party cookies
(third party?  what good can they be?).  But I would change the HTML5
specification to insist that Java Script be in-line.  I would
grudgingly  accept a (specified) "same origin" policy.  But not third
party Java Script.  That is just wrong.  The fact that many of us have
taken too it like ducks to water is no reason to accept that it is
good.  I am old enough to remember many really bad ideas that became
wide spread in IT.  This is just a modern example.

W


>
> Robin.
>
>
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